Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Tsvbfeb/iF Iron Front - Facebook Mafia Cities Gaming Family


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was delete. While I agree that over-hasty use of deletion tools on newbies' work may scare them off, it would be equally cruel to them if we don't tell them there are certain things which are not notable and which will not be worthy of an article in the foreseeable future. Things like most Facebook groups. Pegasus &laquo;C&brvbar;T&raquo; 12:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

User:Tsvbfeb/iF Iron Front - Facebook Mafia Cities Gaming Family
WP:NOTMYSPACE & WP:SPAM -- Marcusmax ( speak ) 21:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete as G11 (Only design to promote a facebook group). New user so I'll try to point to relevant guidelines for the user. -Optigan13 (talk) 21:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Good, I thought of a speedy delete but I am not very strong on policy regarding user pages. - Marcusmax ( speak ) 21:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment- This page is not to promote my "group" if you say. it is a gaming Community. If you see i have linked it to other pages. i told about the game aswell. i am still writing. i plan on making a list of all the large families. and writing more about the game. on another page. this one is going to be a sub page of a subpage. so please. please hang on i am not ready to make the main page yet so i made it a normal subpage for now. later i will add the main page. i just have to get a list of more than 20-30 names. and their leader names. then i will make the main page. -- 23:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Perhaps this page could be moved to User:Tsvbfeb/sandbox, then you could finish the work you are talking about. Still this looks like a violation of WP:NOT but it's only fair you get a chance. - Marcusmax ( speak ) 00:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - i was going to swap it to sandbox but unfortunatley someone deleted it so now i have to track down that information all over again. and get it back. :( Tsvbfeb (talk) 00:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I asked the deleter to restore the information so that you can use it to create Mafia Cities in article space. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia articles should be written using reliable source material that is independent of Mafia Cities and facebook. -- Suntag  ☼  00:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - Looks like they now are cascade protected from deletion. See
 * User:Tsvbfeb/Mafia Cities - Facebook Gaming Community
 * User:Tsvbfeb/Mafia Cities Facebook Application - Gamin Community
 * User:Tsvbfeb/Mafia Cities Facebook Application - Gaming Community
 * -- Suntag  ☼  00:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep - I agree with Marcusmax. This seems like a genuine effort by Tsvbfeb to use user space to create content for article space. User allows a work in progress, until it is ready to be released into article space. -- Suntag  ☼  01:07, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Thank you for returning the information i will condense it down to one page and find. a few '2-3' non facebook MC related References. May i ask a question? i have gotten rankings that were taken from the game. they were taken from Wikipedia in the first place. and i ask i can just search the names and it will come up right? and then i can use that link as a reference? -- Tsvbfeb 01:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly not! That's circular reasoning and self-referencing. Please read our standards for notability of web content, and for what constitutes a "reliable source". -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  01:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment well i mean it is not a wiki page that i created it is a page that the game author used to create the game. and also. i spent 3 hours typing something up which was re-instated then someone went and deleted it again. "contribs) deleted 'User:Tsvbfeb/Mafia Cities - Facebook Gaming Community' ‎ (Wikipedia is not a webhost)User:Tsvbfeb/Mafia Cities Facebook Application - Gaming Community" I was told i can work on this until it is a reliable source. i re-made i had saved it into word. so i can do work on there more faster than on my internet. but i ask that it be tagged as. save or something ...i tagged it Hangon for now. i dont know if there is a more appropriate tag i should place? -- Tsvbfeb (talk) 01:43, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Please read WP:V, to help with sources. Right now I think we should all assume good faith and let this user finish what he wants to do before we go through with deletion. - Marcusmax ( speak ) 02:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Thank you again. I assume there is a place where i can ask further questions not regarding this topic? can anyone direct me to the right area? -- Tsvbfeb (talk) 02:12, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure go to WP:HD for more help, and if you plan on staying at Wikipedia consider going to WP:ADOPT to become adopted by an experienced user. - Marcusmax ( speak ) 02:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Strong delete - while put here in good faith, like many WP:NOT violations, this is all non-notable nonsense about somebody's little facebook game. Kill this fluff; it will never become notable, has no chance of becoming notable, and is an embarrassment to even read. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  01:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Questions - Has any gaming website/magazine (gamespot, ign, etc.) written about this game in particular? Has it won any awards? I would recommend reading Notability (web) and WP:NOTGUIDE as most of the material in its current state resembles a game guide and collection of high scores. -Optigan13 (talk) 02:58, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Well Yes i know it is right now game rules and such. but later i will be involving more background information. i have contacted the developer and he has agreed to help me with some information. and such. it will become less of just high scores. but this game is just like other games. for say PS2 ps3 x box. just not as main stream. and thank you for the links. -- Tsvbfeb (talk) 20:40, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As Suntag pointed out if you write an article about the application Mafia Cities, it needs to be done using reliable source material that is independent of the Mafia Cities developer and facebook. If you interview the developer we can't use it. Interviewing the developer yourself is what we refer to as original research. -Optigan13 (talk) 09:34, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For the wikipedia article, you cannot use anything connected to the game itself. You cannot take the rules from the game and add them to a Wikipedia article because the source of the rules themselves were not independent of the game. You cannot get information from the developer to add to the Wikipedia article because the developer of the game is not independent of the game. You cannot use anything on Facebook about the game because that content is not independent of the game (or doesn't meet Wikipedia's reliable source standards). You cannot use any information from Wikipedia in the article because Wikipedia's content does not meet Wikipedia's reliable source standards. I looked in the mainstream reliable sources and found none. See . Your best bet of finding information to use for the article is in gaming magazines and other soruces that are printed on paper. -- Suntag  ☼  14:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * comment i believe that there is something wrong with that. statement. if i get information from the developer that would be like an interview. wouldnt it? interviews are reliable sources. i right research papers from interveiws. i write essay. its reliable enough for a proffeser it is reliable enough for the world, in my opinion Tsvbfeb (talk)
 * In your opinion yes, but according to WP:NOR, this is not allowed. However if the developer can direct you to a news article or press not made by him/her then I don't see a problem with that. Otherwise look around you'll be suprised what you can find. - Marcusmax ( speak ) 21:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep for now Give him time to find sources that are accepted for showing notability. Re-nominate on a few months or a year if it hasn't got the sources. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:48, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep for now. Let the user turn it to something productive for wikipedia, or blank it himself.  Let's not bite newcomers.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

thanks all i am still workin on this. but at the moment its on hold i have alot of work and school to worry about. give me time and i shall try my best.


 * Delete - I appreciate that the user is trying to write an article on this subject, but that subject is one that does not and in all probability never will pass the notability test. If it hasn't been covered in any reliable sources, that's not a good sign. I don't wish to bite a newbie here, but honestly, the kindest thing to do is advise the user to stop working on these - this is simply not an appropriate topic for a Wikipedia article, and if it is moved into article-space it will almost certainly be deleted. Terraxos (talk) 01:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.