Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User talk subpages of Mauriziok

 __NOINDEX__
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: withdrawn by nominator. Note that I am not going to tag these pages with oldxfd, as there are 247 of them and that seems unnecessarily bureaucratic. Daniel (talk) 04:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

User talk subpages of Mauriziok

 * – (View MfD) &#8203;



User:Mauriziok has created hundreds of user pages. Some of them appear to be valid userspace drafts(?), some of which have since been copied into mainspace, while others are inappropriate content forks duplicated from existing mainspace articles (I'm not sure what's their intent for doing so, but I can imagine it being something an editor attempting to circumvent the deletion process might do). They have also confusingly engaged in copying article talk pages into their usertalkspace, with the result that these user talk subpages now pollute many WikiProject tracking categories. Attempts to raise the issue with the user have been ignored. I haven't been able to sift through the entire mess of user subpages to separate the unwarranted forks from the valid drafts (others are welcome to), but these copied talk pages serve no valid purpose, pollute the categories, and should be deleted. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Paul_012 If I use the code  in talk pages

Could that solve the problem by preventing talk pages from appearing in the categories of Wikimedia projects? --Mauriziok (talk) 16:32, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll assume you're asking about the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; tags. They could ameliorate the issue by disabling the templates altogether, but why on earth would you want to create and retain such pages anyway? By copying actual article talk pages into your own userspace, such as User talk:Mauriziok/Miss and Mister Supranational, you are misplacing discussions and comments made by other editors, who have nothing to do with your user pages. Such copying without attribution (this also applies to your copying of articles into user subpages) is also a violation of Wikipedia's licensing terms, per Copying within Wikipedia, as you have been previously notified. It seems that you may have some reasons for making these copies, but I still do not see what they are. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:42, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Paul_012 I understand. I keep the talk pages in case they might delete those articles in the future. I understand that future discussions will not be on the user page to which I have copied the discussion but more than for the discussions I save them to have the templates of the Wikiprojects to which they belong.
 * For example, the 'Miss Grand' article is again being considered for removal. So, in case they delete the page I keep the copy to see what arrangements can be made, the references and thus see if in the future it can be republished with what has already been previously edited, and not have to start from 0 to edit the article that was made with so much effort.
 * Anyway, please confirm me, if it works for me to put the 'no wiki' codes between them to do it at once. Thanks. --Mauriziok (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Copying and pasting articles that are about to be deleted into your article space is not an acceptable way of saving them. Doing that results in a history split. For copyright reasons articles are required to have a list of all their contributors attached to them - i.e. the page history. Moving the article text to your userspace without the attached history is a copyright violation. If you want to improve an article that was deleted you need to use WP:Requests for undeletion and ask that the article be userfied. All these articles that you've copied and pasted into your userspace will either need to be deleted, or an administrator will need to perform a WP:History merge, which may or may not be possible depending upon if both copies of the article have been edited at the same time. 192.76.8.91 (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 192.76.8.91 (talk) I understand the issue of the article history division and article co-authors.
 * I have one question, if I am going to create an article that has been previously deleted, can I create it immediately or should I base it on the deleted edit? That is, if I see that an article does not exist and I want to create it, but I have not made sure that it has been previously deleted, and I start creating it from scratch and when I go to publish it I see that it has been previously deleted; then, in that case, 1) I can publish it 2) even if I created it without having to copy and paste it from the deleted edition, I must request the history of the deleted edition or necessarily base my edition on that deleted edition.
 * In that case I would like to know how can I copy and paste the history of the articles with their respective co-authors. Anyway, I must clarify that several of the workshops are for articles that do not exist and that have never been created and for others that do exist.
 * My main intention when copying the articles is to be able to see carefully and in detail the errors they present, the missing references and to be able to standardize the way in which the data are presented. In fact, I myself have changed the standards in which I want to present.
 * I should also mention that I always take into consideration the fact that after I have copied a certain article, future edits may have been made to it.
 * And in the event that I consider that I have finished improving the article (totally or partially), I always check how the article is at the last minute. And anyway, past editions are recorded there. I've never had a problem with copying and pasting copyrighted content. --Mauriziok (talk) 05:18, 11 July 2021 (UTC)


 * To answer each of your questions:
 * I am going to create an article that has been previously deleted, can I create it immediately or should I base it on the deleted edit?
 * You may create a new version that is entirely your own work (though it might still be subjected to a new deletion discussion). However, re-creating the page based on the deleted version will be subject to speedy deletion criterion G4 and likely result in it being immediately deleted again, unless substantial improvements are made.
 * If... I start creating it from scratch...
 * In this case go ahead and publish the article. No further action is needed. Note that from scratch does not include cases where you've copied the first version from a different article and then edited in the details about the current subject.
 * how can I copy and paste the history of the articles with their respective co-authors
 * You cannot. For existing articles, you should edit the main article where it is, if possible. If you feel the need to make multiple draft versions before committing the changes, you may create a userspace draft, but you must provide attribution by linking to the original page in the edit summary when making the copy. For example, when creating User:Mauriziok/Ana Carolina Ugarte, you should have provided a statement in the edit summary saying,  For cases where the copying is already done, you can make a retroactive attribution notice, e.g.   (If you copied content from a different article to use as a template, e.g. User:Mauriziok/Billianis Álvarez, you must attribute the page that you copied from, i.e. Sthefany Gutiérrez.)
 * However, it's a good idea not to have too many of these drafts lying around without being actively worked on, since the longer they stay in your userspace, the more likely others will have made further edits to the existing article, causing conflicts between the versions.
 * For articles that have been deleted but which you wish to further improve, the proper course of action, as 192.76.8.91 has mentioned, is to make a request at WP:REFUND rather than to copy/paste the content. If the copy/pasting has already been done, a history merge can be requested by placing the &#123;&#123;History merge&#125;&#125; template on the pasted page. Note that the G4 CSD criterion may apply to userspace drafts copy/pasted from deleted pages if active improvements aren't made.
 * I've never had a problem with copying and pasting copyrighted content
 * That's probably because nobody has noticed your copying before. However, they are indeed in violation of policy. User:Diannaa, who primarily works with such matters, may be able to provide further explanation if needed.
 * I hope this has provided a better understanding of the relevant processes. All that said, this isn't quite related to the issue that is the subject of this MfD: the talk pages themselves. You've provided two reasons:
 * I keep the talk pages in case they might delete those articles in the future."
 * As mentioned above, this is not appropriate. If an article is deleted and the talk page along with it, and you wish to have them restored for further improvement, you should make an undeletion request. Given that most of the talk pages you've copied haven't been deleted, they're just redundant forks existing in your userspace that present a copyright issue due to the lack of attribution, and even if the attribution was fixed they are still totally useless, since all those discussions just duplicate the actual pages.
 * more than for the discussions I save them to have the templates of the Wikiprojects to which they belong
 * Well, that's fine for drafts that don't already exist as articles, but for those that already exist they're redundant and thus quite useless. For those that you expect may be deleted, the above applies.
 * Disabling the templates using the nowiki tag, as you have done, helps avoid the category pollution problem, but I still don't see good reason to keep all of these duplicate pages. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Paul_012 All right. I put the statement in the edit summary of User:Mauriziok/Ana Carolina Ugarte with the retroactive attribution notice 'Attribution: text was copied from Ana Carolina Ugarte on 4 July 2021. Please see the history of that page for full attribution'. I can see it in the history's page but tell me if I did it right to do it in the rest of the sandboxes.
 * About the talk pages What I think I can also do is erase the discussions belong but only keep the desactivated templates. I'm also thinking to put all kind of different desactivated templates in only one page and on types of articles they can fit into.
 * But in short, the templates on the workshop talk pages are disabled.
 * I can delete the discussions. But doing the work of unifying the disabled template examples by article type will take more time.
 * I will take copying considerations into account in future articles and will not copy the discussion pages, I would only copy those templates that I have never seen and that I deem necessary to copy (obviously copying them with the 'no wiki' code). Give me a couple of months to do this job.--Mauriziok (talk) 05:41, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the responses. The attribution notice is good, and solves the copying/attribution issue. (You could also make a Help:Dummy edit by changing a space to a double space; that way you won't have to make another edit reverting the change.) If you plan on removing the talk page discussions, I'd be happy to withdraw this deletion request. If, after consolidating the templates, you find that you no longer need any of these pages, you can tag them for speedy deletion via &#123;&#123;db-g7&#125;&#125;. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:AGF, WP:DEADLINE and WP:NOTPAPER. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The nominated pages are not drafts but redundant copies of talk pages that already exist elsewhere. I don't think the cited reasons apply. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The nomination is confusing and so this is something of a trainwreck. The sensible way forward is to assist Mauriziok is keeping the information that he wants, rather than starting yet another page.  They seem to have addressed the category complaint and there doesn't seem to be any other significant issue. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


 * In light of the above developments, I'm withdrawing this deletion request. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.