Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/List of teams and cyclists in the 2013 Tour de France

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  No consensus. A lot of the discussion below isn't really about deleting this page, and some of the pro-deletion concerns don't seem to be strongly connected to the policies and guidelines normally used to justify deletion. If you think you can sort this through editing (improving the page, redirecting it, etc.), then feel free to take that to the project talk pages. Bring it back here for another try if needed. RL0919 (talk) 23:23, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/List of teams and cyclists in the 2013 Tour de France


I can see no good reason for a Wikiproject to copy articles that are not in its topic area into its wikiproject space - and when they are doing so without attribution (see WP:CWW) and without doing the basics such as removing category tags that are not appropriate on the copied page then the project should stop what they are doing and rethink. DexDor(talk) 22:32, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * well... it was user:Kelson who proposed to do it this way to work on the content to put on http://en.africapack.kiwix.org/wiki/Main_Page. The general idea was to prepare the content to put on the wiki on wikipedia itself, then to move it automatically through a bot system. Since the dozen of articles selected are meant to be "copies" of the Wikipedia article, then I obviously plan to keep the categories for the export
 * please note that I copied less than 10 articles and put an attribution tag on all the others. I just did not do this one yet because I saw earlier on that you were not happy about our solution. Accordingly, I stopped copying the articles (and forgot to put the last attribution tag), whilst trying to figure out a practical solution.
 * ... so I understand you might consider it disrupting... but there is actually a good reason I kept those categories and to be fair... I think it is not up to you to consider what is in the topic area of our project and what is not.
 * I would appreciate that you do not start deleting the content I worked on before I found a solution. Clearly, we are not welcome. Fine. But it would be nice that we get the time to find another way of doing it. Thanks Anthere (talk) 22:47, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You appear to have copied at least 10 articles (plus pages from the Help namespace etc) - none of them with attribution. With a wide range of subjects covered (picked at random?) I was concerned that you might be considering doing thousands more - thus adding lots of clutter to article categories. You may argue that the disruption to categorization would only be temporary, but I don't think you should be disrupting other editors/readers even temporarily and experience has shown that such things are often abandoned leaving others to clean up the mess (example).
 * This copying of articles into wikiproject space has been going on for over a month - e.g. this was created by you on 8th June and blanked (by myself) on the 14th. These pages are appearing on database queries that I check (mainly checking for incorrectly categorized pages) and also in maintenance categories that other editors check (example edit).
 * It's pretty obvious that an article about the 2013 Tour de France isn't about an African topic - its talk page is not tagged for any African wikiprojects (and it probably shouldn't be).
 * Why don't you just create a list of the articles that you want to take a copy of? (with links either to the latest version or to a revision that you've checked for vandalism etc). DexDor(talk) 04:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

The exact list of pages I have copied is listed here : Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Wikipedia:Showcase. Within that list, the only articles I copied are the following. All together, they make 7 articles (NOT AT LEAST a dozen). 4 of those have attribution template at the bottom of the pages (check them out please) Out of those 7 articles, 4 were already taggued with attribution (please check out one of those, I think it is a perfectly acceptable template : with Template:WikiFundi credit attribution. I was working on the articles and debug the site yesterday, so yes, all attributions templates were not yet in place. I based that template over the translation template. I think it is fine, but if you think it is not fine as is, please suggest changes. I'll be happy to get some feedback on those. There will be a grand total of less of 30 articles concerned overall. So yes, I will revert those articles back and I will remove the categories and will put them back manually in the software. Fine. Does that satisfy you ? Let me try on one article and tell me if that is ok.
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Baleen whale
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/springbok
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Lesser Antillean macaw
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Heterodontosaurus
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Jean-Joseph Rabearivelo
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Charlize Theron filmography
 * WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/List of teams and cyclists in the 2013 Tour de France
 * does that page satisfies you ? WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Baleen whale ?

No, I do not want to do a list. The reason is that I will slightly modify the articles for the final import. Such as removing templates if we really can not identify how to import them properly. Or removing certain elements to simplify the appearance.
 * I forgot WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Wikipedia Zero in my list...

As for your comment about me letting others cleaning my mess at Category:Articles in Wikipedia Primary School Project SSAJRP, I would actually love it if others were helping me cleaning up the mess. But fact is no one is helping me and I will do it alone. I am trying my best but since Wikimania, I am swamped in work and I struggle doing it all. I will fix this category, I promise. So if you could please refrain from such comments and remember that we are all here trying to help humanity and hoping to do the good thing, I would really really appreciate. You know... Assume Good Faith and that... really please DexDor. Ok ? Anthere (talk)
 * Other pages that have contained copies of articles are WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/Sinenjongo High School, WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/copyleft and WikiProject Wikipack Africa Content/open source. Unfortunately, we've seen (good-faith) projects in the past that were a net negative to En Wp (e.g. IEP). DexDor(talk) 06:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. If there's any content worth merging, then it can be merged and remain a redirect but it doesn't seem like it's happening. Otherwise, it seems like there's a habit (not point to User:Anthere in particular as it's been happening for years from others as well) for people to propose grand projects either at meta or other places and for some reason their solution is almost always to come to English and enact them, creating elaborate structures and discussions here but without a discussion here as to what makes sense in terms of a project and without any effort to get interest here other than after the proposal is supposedly complete or in progress and then annoyance or anger that people here aren't in board with a project that's been discussed for months or even longer on an entirely different project without any input from the other volunteers here. I'm not exactly sure what the project is meant to do here but I think "create a copy of the mainspace page and edit it on our own and then either move/force/merge the content in" seems like a poorly designed way to go forward. I suggest that people use WP:VPP, especially the idea lab area, or at WikiProject Countering systemic bias and propose what they want to do before jumping into these kinds of things, which often seem to die out as the initial person loses interest. As for Category:Articles in Wikipedia Primary School Project SSAJRP, WP:BOTREQUEST would be a simple solution to fixing the tagging but I still have no idea what the actual project proposes to do other than what seems like a bunch of vague, high-level talking points about its challenges and goals. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:23, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The Bot Request seems a good idea enough. Except that no one answered the request in several days... accordingly, I will start doing it by hand today. Anthere (talk)
 * Thanks for removing the category tags (e.g.) - the category has now been deleted. Note: I don't know why a project that added category tags by hand thinks that removing them should be done by bot. DexDor(talk) 06:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The suggestion is just as a matter of speed. It was doable via AWB since it's pretty consistent work. Either way, delete these articles and we can see if there's another method of how this project can work. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:53, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.