Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 16

Hokitika
Please see Talk:Hokitika, New Zealand. Cheers, Mattinbgn (talk) 05:33, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Notability of NZ articles
What is the standard for notability of NZ articles? USA-based User:BMRR has tagged several NZ articles threatening that they are "likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted" on notability grounds. These articles include Kirkcaldie & Stains, Briscoe Group, Woolworths (New Zealand), Four Square supermarkets, SuperValue, Energy Direct, H & J Smith's and others. These all appear notable to me (although some of the articles are stubs and could do with some work). Or am I missing something here? --Pakaraki (talk) 07:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've removed the notability tags from Kirkcaldie & Stains, Briscoe Group, Woolworths (New Zealand) and Four Square supermarkets. SuperValue should have a bit of work done to it. I don't know about the notability of the others listed here. Could somebody post a list here of other articles that have been tagged?  Schwede 66  08:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Re the original question, I believe the standard is the same as everything else; that is, if it's an entity which has received comprehensive coverage independent of any parent subject it could be merged to, then it's notable enough for a stand-alone article. sonia ♫  08:38, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how to get Wikipedia to list such articles, but there are also these ones: Big Fresh, Greenstone Pictures, Price Chopper (New Zealand), Longacre Press, Salehoo, Woolworths @ Gull, Wellington Tornadoes F.C., Rice Refrigeration, Link ElectroSystems, Hotel Coachman, Cycling Southland, Totara House. --Pakaraki (talk) 09:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've untagged H & J Smith's and added a couple of references. I've left Rice Refrigeration as is at the moment as I think it's at the outer limit of notability. I don't know enough about the other organisations to have anything useful to say about them. Daveosaurus (talk) 10:06, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It was me who prodded Totara House the other day.  Schwede 66  10:37, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've put together a list at WikiProject New Zealand/Articles with unclear notability, there are 180 at the moment. XLerate (talk) 10:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Of that list, Bob McCoskrie is definitely notable (I can't help because I can't bring myself to say anything about him that wouldn't count as a BLP violation). John Hanlon is also definitely notable, my problem in this case is that I don't know where to find early 1970s music charts. Lyn McConchie is an award-winning novelist, with links to the awards, so I don't actually understand why her biography is so flagged. The Mockers are also definitely notable and Trevor Loudon could just about scrape in on the amount of attention his conspiracy theories seem to be getting in America. I'll try to look at some of these articles in the next month or so if I get the chance. Daveosaurus (talk) 10:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just untagged Longacre Press (Winner of nine Montana Book awards and numerous other awards), Karyn Hay, and a handful of others. Good Lord there are geographical places in there, which almost always pass notability. And William Maurice Brown (that is, The Rt. Hon. Lt. Colonel W. M. Brown, OBE) I don't think BMRR understands the notability guidelines... PS - Dave, a lot of chart information of NZ acts can be found in the appendices to John Dix's "Stranded in Paradise". Grutness...wha?  01:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry James. I had tagged Longacre Press. It was a bad judgement on my part. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 03:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * S'alright - these things happen, and it's certainly not as strange as some of the other tagged ones. Grutness...wha?  10:18, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Daveosaurus, I with you on Bob McCoskrie when comes to avoiding BLP violations. I don't think he is notable per WP:ANYBIO. I will AfD it. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 03:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just listed Articles for deletion/Rice Refrigeration. I know all about WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but Rices is the odd one out in Category:Retail companies of New Zealand. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think Trevor Loudon is notable per WP:ANYBIO. I have had a run in with him so I don't want to touch the article for fear of reprisals. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This probably all came about because of Articles for deletion/VIP Parts, Tires and Service of all places. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 03:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Treaty of Waitangi
I have reverted some recent edits at Treaty of Waitangi because they seem like original research to me, from primary texts. Anyone like to take a look and see what you think? Kahuroa (talk) 10:40, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe that I have quoted reliable sources for what I have written. The reliable, published source I used is NZ History online which references Archives New Zealand. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/interactive/the-declaration-of-independence What I have added is both expressed in a neutral point of view and contains verifiable contents, and I have not carried out “my own research” (in breach of the Wikipedia content policy) in quoting from NZ History Online regarding the use by Henry Williams of ‘kāwanatanga’, ‘Kingitanga’ and ‘mana’ in the Declaration of Independence, which was signed 5 years before the Treaty of Waitangi. (MozzazzoM (talk) 01:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC))
 * Yep that clears it up for me. I have restored MozzazzoM's edits to the article. Kahuroa (talk) 02:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Silver fern flag images
File:Silver fern flag.svg and File:NZ fern flag.svg look the same. Not sure what to do with them over at Commons. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 12:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * They have different borders, I'd link them to each other with the "other versions" field in the information template. Alternatively File:NZ fern flag.svg isn't used much so could be nominated for deletion. XLerate (talk) 12:47, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Linking them is a good idea. Having different borders can be helpful so I would rather not go for deletion. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 19:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

2011 Rugby World Cup
Looking for somewhere to contribute this week - 2011 Rugby World Cup could benefit from some more work. Nurg (talk) 11:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

New Zealand blogosphere
New Zealand blogosphere was started with great enthusiasm in 2006, but has had little attention recently and could probably do with an update since the blogosphere changes fairly rapidly. Specifically, there is a list of suggested additions at Talk:New Zealand blogosphere. Feedback on the sites on this list would be appreciated.- gadfium 21:03, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest that we defer to authority (or authorities). Rankings such as http://airnewzealandbestblogaward.blogspot.com/ (which is interpretative) and https://openparachute.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/nz-blog-rankings-update/ (which is strictly a counting exercise) seem like good places to start. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Climbing areas of the North Island article needs attenetion
Climbing areas of the North Island is an unreferenced list without any sort of annotation about each location. If such an article should even exist we need a Climbing areas of New Zealand. WP:NOTTRAVEL is relevant. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 18:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Auckland RecentChangesCamp- date needed
User:LauraHale and I are organizing, with the generous sponsorship of Wikimedia Australia, a one-day RecentChangesCamp in Auckland (similar to last year's one in Canberra). Part of the idea here is to refresh discussion about starting a national chapter, but it's also just good fun :) I've found a potential venue, but it'd be useful to know what dates people would be most likely to make it (if interested!) So far I'm thinking either December 3 or 10, since Saturdays during the holiday period seems most logical to me. Anyone who's interested in helping in any way is welcome and would be much appreciated. sonia ♫ 04:13, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Want to support this statement. :) Your friendly neighborhood neighbors who provided free coffee for a meetup in April would like to continue to help the NZ community. :) There are some awesome people. We need to preferred date so we can do some planning like secure a venue. :) --LauraHale (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

International Kiwi Artist
I'm an an entity which has received comprehensive coverage independent of any parent subject it could be merged to, who wants to check the verification? My Profile is at Sabanci University here: Paul Moss PROFILE My Art Gallery at Sabanci University here Paul Moss Gallery My exhibition is current. Event - Exhibition called Uncontainable - Second Nature at Cumhiruyet Gallery. ISEA2011 held at Sabanci University, Istanbul, Turkey, as part of Istanbul Biennale I was also a 'discussant' at the Imaginary Futures event, and participated in the Second Nature - Round Table event.

I was there, and listed as a particpating artist with photo, I made a documentary for TV about this event. I rest my case. who wants to 'do the right thing'?
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Moss (talk • contribs) 17:37, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by do the right thing. Could you please be more explicit in your request? Stuartyeates (talk) 18:43, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I think he means that he wants us to write an article about him. That is doing the "right thing" since if he were to write it himself it may lead to conflict of interest accusations. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Paul, have a read of WP:CREATIVE. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Isn't trawling for someone to write an article about you little better than self-promotion? DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 05:50, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record Requested articles and WikiProject New Zealand/Requested articles both exist. Some people apparently find them useful, but I don't recall ever creating a page from one of those lists. Stuartyeates (talk) 05:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There seems to be some notability. There is, for example, the Paul Moss Official Fan Site, with four members, including himself. --Epipelagic (talk) 06:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Revisiting WM-NZ
Hi. Some of the Australians are really keen to help the Kiwis establish a chapter. We'd love to help organise a one day RecentChangesCamp in early December, with a track to do this. As most of the people offering support are Australian, we really need help getting a venue and then help promoting it. We've got some contacts with Wiki Educator and Creative Commons New Zealand that we can try to get involved with this. Just need some people who might be interested in helping get the ball rolling. :) If that's you, please get in touch with me, or drop by . --LauraHale (talk) 08:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * See our last attempt to establish a chapter here. It could easily be picked up again i guess. As for holding a RCC, what city are you thinking of? Brian | (Talk) 20:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * (summary of points made in discussion with LauraHale via IRC): I'm pretty ambivalent about a kiwi chapter, but if we go that route, we need to try and obtain as many hooks into government/funding as possible. Talking to http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/ (run out of Royal Society of New Zealand), LIANZA, DigitalNZ, etc. seems important. See also the up-coming Stuartyeates (talk) 23:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Re the RCC: Auckland, most likely-- see two sections above. sonia ♫ 04:14, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Superannuation in New Zealand
With the Labour Party kicking off a debate on raising the superannuation age, I tried to look up when the age changed from 60 to 65, but it appears we have no article. There's a paragraph at Social welfare in New Zealand but it doesn't give the year. It was in the early 1990s. At about the same time, the rate of superannuation was significantly reduced, along with most other benefits. I think this would make a valuable addition to Wikipedia, possibly as Superannuation in New Zealand. A good starting point for the history of superannuation appears to be. Anyone interested in writing this, or would it be worth making a topic for a collaboration?- gadfium 19:08, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest that we should write this after the election, writing pages about election issues encourages partisanship. You may also add your suggestion to WikiProject_New_Zealand/Requested_articles. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:27, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Between now and the election it's probably more important that an eye be kept on articles about politicians and parties and vandalism quickly reverted. (And not just the obvious ones - someone with a deep grudge just vandalised Jenny Shipley recently...) I normally only keep articles that interest me or are vaguely Southland related on the watch list (therefore relatively few politicians) but if any are getting more than the usual share of vandalism (or PR reputation enhancing) I think it would be a good idea to list them here so that people know what to keep an eye on. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * A couple of pages that I check at least daily for related changes are Party lists and candidates. They mostly have the same content, so checking one or the other is probably sufficient.- gadfium 07:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Those look useful, is there any way of adding the pages to a watch list? I can't find the usual 'watch this' button. Daveosaurus (talk) 08:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Use them as browser bookmarks/favourites.- gadfium 08:51, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

New wikipage "Feminism in New Zealand"
Hey, This is Valencia4723 and I'm currently working on "Feminism in New Zealand" I noticed somebody added to this page and I thank you greatly for that! I would also like help and insight from anyone else willing to help. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valencia4723 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello Valencia4723, I added some stuff and you're welcome. If you're looking for sources of information I suggest that you look at the table at WikiProject New Zealand/Sources which has lots of New Zealand sources. Keep up the good work. Stuartyeates (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

El Niño-Southern Oscillation
The nearest to a mention we get in this article is this "The 2010-2011 La Niña was one of the strongest ever observed. The effect on Eastern Australia was devastating." Is there a scientist who has their mind around the NZ view of this subject? I'd have thought a high quality Geographer would have been ideal. Not thinking of anyone in particular of course. Eddaido (talk) 07:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Nice elections map in Herald today
In case anyone is interested, this is pretty good. Moriori (talk) 21:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Population data
Late last month Statistics New Zealand released an update of the subnational population estimates, minus the urban area data. Currently the complete set is needed to update Template:NZ population data, which supplies the numbers to most regions, districts, cities and lists containing population. I've asked about the urban area numbers, the reply was next update 19 Dec per the calendar (although it and the reply don't specifically say it will contain the 2011 urban area numbers). I plan to wait until then and look to update the template. Alternatively NZ population data could be split into two templates for local govt/urban areas. XLerate (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

New names for old railways
If anyone here is particularly interested in railways (and articles about them) you might be interested to know that a whole bunch of railways have had their names officially changed earlier this month to take effect as at 3rd November 2011. These were advertised in the New Zealand Gazette, 2011, page 4697. The new names are as follows: Bluff Line - Invercargill to Bluff - formerly Bluff Industrial Line.

East Coast Main Trunk - Hamilton to Kawerau - formerly East Coast Main Trunk Railway.

Finegand Branch - south of Balclutha to Finegand - formerly Finegand Industrial Siding.

Gracefield Branch - Woburn to Gracefield - formerly Gracefield Industrial Line.

Hautapu Branch - Ruakura to Hautapu - formerly Cambridge Industrial Siding.

Hokitika Line - Greymouth to Hokitika - formerly Hokitika Industrial Line.

Hornby Branch - Hornby toward Prebbleton - formerly Hornby Industrial Line.

Murupara Line - Kawerau to Murupara - formerly Murupara Branch.

Ohai Line - Invercargill to Ohai - formerly Ohai Industrial Line.

Port Chalmers Branch - Sawyers Bay to Port Chalmers container terminal - formerly Port Chalmers Industrial Line.

Rotowaro Branch - Huntly to Rotowaro - formerly Rotowaro Industrial Line.

Tinwald Branch - Tinwald west for less than 1 km - formerly Tinwald Industrial Siding.

Waitoa Branch - Morrinsville to Waitoa - formerly Waitoa Industrial Line.

Whangarei Port Branch - just south of Whangarei to Port Whangarei - formerly Port Whangarei Industrial Siding.

(eff it it is annoying trying to add carriage returns to this thing!)

This was typed up from reading the printed Gazette so beware of possible typos. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:46, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

RecentChangesCamp 2012
Just a reminder RecentChangesCamp 2012 is coming up soon! :D Please consider attending. :) It is a great opportunity to network with you fellow Australian and Kiwi wiki mates. :)  Invite all your wiki friends. :) New Zealanders are eligible to attend by applying for WMF Participation Grants and a special WM AU grant. :) --LauraHale (talk) 09:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Prisons
I'd like some opinions on recent changes to Department of Corrections (New Zealand), Judith Collins and Prison by a new editor with significant wiki familiarity. The edits seem to me to be somewhat PoV but not unsalvageably so, and some sections of the Corrections article appear to rely very heavily on a single newly published book.- gadfium 00:06, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Among my concerns with these edits are that the user appears to be either Roger Brooking, or very closey associated to him, and that the site started by Mr Brooking and used as a citation, www.flyingblind.co.nz, appears to lead to a blank page. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 00:16, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.flyingblind.co.nz works for me.- gadfium 00:24, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Most of the refs for Department of Corrections (New Zealand) need some serious work. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 07:40, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

2012 in New Zealand
Ok happy campers, lets make a start on the 2012 in New Zealand article. I have thrown together a bit of a basic start at WikiProject New Zealand/2012 in New Zealand. Lets try and get a presentable article by 1 Jan 2012. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 19:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Is it just me?
I think this very tacky article, Spud One, is a childish, unencyclopedic in joke. Comments? (It was even worse until someone removed "Some civil servants are known to have branded the 757s as 'Broomstick One and Broomstick Two', as a reference to them being transport for former Prime Minister Helen Clark. The Labour government was criticised by other political parties for updating VIP aircraft while disbanding the RNZAF's combat arm." Moriori (talk) 01:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A deletion is almost warranted but a redir to Jim Bolger is probably better, with the addition of a very short sentence to that article. There are refs out there. The current ones in the article are of no use. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 02:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My preference is to have that article deleted; totally unencyclopedic. I'll progress this tomorrow, unless somebody beats me to it.  Schwede 66  02:32, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The Spud part of the article is unreferenced. So is the Spud mention in the Bolger article, which I am about to delete re BLP. Moriori (talk) 02:37, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've redirected Spud One somewhere more appropriate. (Hopefully I haven't broken anything while doing so). Daveosaurus (talk) 05:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Can I just put on record that I have watched this paragraph with growing amazement. Spud One was always breaking down, the broomsticks (as reported until deleted preserving a political "balance" in the disappeared article) and the unsaleable trainers and some buzzy things became the RNZAF which today it was suggested should be rolled in and under the Navy! for heaven's sake, is it any different (with new vessel ready to capsize if loaded with anything)? Tacky childish behaviour those editors, get robust and not with the deletions. It just may be that it really is just You. I presume the article on Helengrad is to be next to disappear. Eddaido (talk) 11:54, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Nothing has been deleted (the content is all there in the article history) but the point of Wikipedia is to build an encyclopaedia, not to fling poo at retired politicians. Neither of the references given in the article so much as contained the word "spud". states "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives". As it stood the article was not far off being an attack page. If the planes are at all notable then surely they deserve an article at their official designation? The situation as it stood, with the article on the planes solely under a perjorative nickname, would have been comparable to the only article on Auckland being filed under "Jafastan". Daveosaurus (talk) 20:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The article has disappeared.
 * My point (which you choose not to see) is that the decision was wrong. Listing the headings under which the mistaken assessments were made simply begs a reader to, you hope, accept your opinion without question. Trample on. Eddaido (talk) 21:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Donating to Wikimedia in New Zealand
Doing end of year housekeeping (of the virtual kind) I've found the e-mail exhorting me to make a donation. Noting the modest size of my intended donation, I looked around for an efficient way to pay, not involving fees or currency conversions, and found that the only method I can pay in NZD is Paypal, which for me goes on my credit card. Investigating,
 * I see on https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give/en that in, f. ex., Fiji or the Cook Islands, I can make donations by credit card, eWallet, bank transfer, direct debit or internet banking but not New Zealand.
 * https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Local_chapters shows no chapter in New Zealand
 * after clicking on Donate, http://wikimediafoundation.org/fundraising Donate, if I change the currency to NZD the donate by credit card button disappears.

I searched the notice board archive for a discussion on these, and found none. Is there a reason there is no local chapter?

Jlittlenz (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I've copied this message to meta:Talk:Fundraising 2011 alongside other feedback about this year's fundraiser. As for a New Zealand chapter: to be honest, I'm not sure if it's sustainable given the size of our active community; the concept has however been discussed. sonia ♫ 03:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Sonia. There was a response:
 * Oops sorry, it seems that some of the countries in Oceania didn't get added to the Ways to Give page. I've put them up there now. The donation page for New Zealand is [1], where you can donate via Visa, Mastercard, Amex, PayPal or Bank Transfer.
 * To which I replied:
 * Thank you. Donate->other ways to give->Oceania->New Zealand->Donate by bank transfer gave me a page with a bank account number on it, and a reference to use. I had to be slightly persistent; three extra clicks. I presume there is a reason the main page donate buttons don't go the same page.Jlittlenz (talk) 03:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC)