Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 3

Waitangi Park New article appraisal please
No its not an April fools joke either.. This is a notable park in NZ that has just been re-created, and will become one of the prime tourism destinations with it's proximity to Te Papa and Courtenay/Te Aro waterfront location. I would appreciate critical comment as to content and style compliance to wiki, on the article talk page. I am also really interested in learning more about Categories and cat structure for NZ, and willing to create some, and present a cat tree for NZ articles, to make it easy to follow. Do we need more park cats for instance; we could have national, urban, amusement, marine, forest, etc.moza 06:55, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Kapa haka
Hello all - I have just made major changes and additions to the kapa haka article and would appreciate input. Since I ran out of time I have left the description of mōteatea and whakaeke/whakahaere undone. If anyone wants to have a crack at it, please go for it. I also intend to look at haka, poi, and Māori music at some point in the future. And - it could really use a photo! Mona-Lynn 05:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

NZ FAC - The Catlins
Apologies for the cross-posting, but I thought you'd like to know that Featured article candidates/The Catlins is now up and running! Grutness...wha?  02:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Louise Nicholas rape trial
New Zealand Wikipedians may be interested in the discussion at Village_pump_%28policy%29.-gadfium 03:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Collaborations
Does New Zealand wiki articles need a Collaborations? It would be a good way of improving articles one at a time, as happens in many other parts of Wikipedia. Would people be interested? --Midnighttonight 00:15, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I would.-gadfium 00:23, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * sounds like a good scheme to me. Grutness...wha?  01:40, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good Brian | (Talk) 02:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds okay, I was thinking of creating a list of things people could do as well, WikiProject_New_Zealand has some lists of pages people can do or expand. but perhaps we could create list of longer ones (like to do with years in NZ, or Dictionary of NZ biography) for people who have time but don't know where to start. thoughts? - SimonLyall 02:14, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Next question: How often is it to run? Currently there are four different lengths. Weekly, Fortnightly, Monthly and Open ended (until the article is decent I presume). I would suggest fortnightly as a nice amount of time, weekly needs a significant number of contributors while monthly is really too long and people will get bored. --Midnighttonight 03:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy with fortnightly.


 * I suggested a regular collaboration on NZ topics before; see New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 2. That garnered several suggestions of articles which could do with improvement, but no one saying they'd like to participate. It's good to see a few people stepping forward this time.


 * I suppose we'll have a page set up to propose future collaborations and vote on which one will be next. The NZ Portal can advertise the current collaboration in the "Wikiprojects" pane, or maybe the "Things you can do" pane, and this page should also have a link to the current collaboration. Template:Announcements/Current collaborations needs to be updated each fortnight. It's a little more work, but probably quite effective to also drop a note on the talk page of everyone who votes for a particular article when it becomes the active collaboration.-gadfium 04:25, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll get on with setting it up in the next few days then unless other people would like to take a lead... --Midnighttonight 09:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks like I will not be able to get on to Wikipedia for a while, so someone else may have to do set up etc if people want it done soon. --Midnighttonight 09:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I have gone and set up a page were we can choose what article we will work on each Fortnight New Zealand Collaboration of the Fortnight (and yes, before you ask, I did base it on the aussie one :). Got any articles you feel like nom? Brian | (Talk) 04:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Proposed New Zealand Wikimedia chapter
Head over to the Wikimedia New Zealand if you're interested in helping out with forming a New Zealand chapter of Wikimedia. Brian | (Talk) 20:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand Flags around Seoul
Does anyone know why there are literally thousands of New Zealand flags currently flying around Seoul? Is Clacker or one of her ministry in town? --Roisterer 08:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
 * IIRC The Governor-General Dame Silvia Cartwright is in Seoul (I belive its for 4 days) Brian | (Talk) 09:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Cheers. I asked a few guards around the Blue House (the Korean President's official residence) why but they couldn't tell me.  To reiterate my earlier, there are more NZ flags here in seoul than I saw in NZ in the entire 18 months I lived there. I'd take a photo of some of the flags but alas I am camera less at the moment.  --Roisterer 09:33, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Auckland Meet up
An meetup is planned in Auckland in a couple of months, see: Meetup/Auckland for details Brian | (Talk) 11:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Kokako
Hello! I just noticed we have two articles that I think should be merged: Kokako and North Island Kokako. What do people think? Mona-Lynn 16:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. There's enough material there now for one article, not two. I think the North Island Kokako article should be merged into the Kokako article. -- Avenue 01:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree as well. You should put mergeto and mergefrom tags on the articles first, and wait a few days for responses, as there may be people who watch one of those articles but don't read this noticeboard.-gadfium 09:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've now added those tags to the articles. -- Avenue 14:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Music Festivals (New Zealand)
Music Festivals (New Zealand) I just created an article for this subject, please be patient while I source as many references as I can, some are quite aged and in storage, so it is going to take a while. I have many suitable images to add also. My main concern is that it will likely blow out in size, and if people start adding Big Day Out material, for instance, that may need its own article, if it doesnt already exist under some name that i cant see. All contributions gratefully received, preferably adding rather than subtracting, early in the life cycle. Lets wait until we have something good before we start shredding it down, please. moza 05:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems very odd to be adding lists of sound engineers, lighting engineers, emergency management staff and such - and I can't help but think this is another attempt to write yourself into a Wikipedia article. Still, I shall AGF and hope that you intend to add verified references demonstrating why it is important to include such minutiae. I've only seen such people included when what they did was particularly innovative or newsworthy, such as Abe Jacobs' work at the Monterey Pop Festival. Z iggurat 21:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * wouldnt the easy answer be to just remove all the un-verified material after a period? The names dont count much so remove them if you want, I rank higher than anyone I know so it wont make any difference. It is all true, and we should stick to whats important, as rather than trying to second guess intent. I put them there to kick start a long process, there were lots of people involved that may now contribute here. There is a truth here though, that reactions to articles say as much about the reactor as the article, and thats something that I am interested in for sure. I dont think that anything that ever happened in enzed music festivals could be compared to Monterey, and I have a lot of difficulty trying to understand why anyone would try. Set and setting are the key. Those NZ events, especially the 3 dayers, were seminal to kiwi music industry, and have more meaning to insiders than the people that havent experienced them. Humans being brought back to life from a near death experience may be minutae to most, as would taking your clothes off in 2006, but it was more than a few decades ago, in a significantly different cultural environment, so perhaps its just old hat. The Knobz wrote a song at the time; CULTURE, featuring a characterizastion of Rob Muldoon, who had just applied sales tax to POP music but NOT to Classical or Opera. There is No Depression in New Zealand, was a song of the times, The Plague appeared naked apart from body paint. Those events were art in action, and have attributes that transcend their mechanical existence, all the humans that contributed to that art are important, but I fully expect that that aspect will be sanitised in the name of good editing. My concept of the process here is that anyone can edit at anytime, and that implies multiple contributions, and if any content fails to stand the test of time, then so be it, but that includes time as a component.  btw, the article has its own talk page already in action. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozasaur (talk • contribs)
 * I'll freely admit that most of what you say above makes no sense to me, specifically that I do not understand how it relates to my suggestion in any way. I'm talking about the lists of sound engineers, lighting engineers, emergency management staff and such, not about the relevance of the article as a whole. Z iggurat 00:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * A couple of thousand years ago they understood that the WHOLE was greater than the SUM OF THE PARTS. Those people creating those festivals made those things work, they were cities of 30,000 to 70,000 that had to be looked after, and entertained, educated, protected from themselves even. Saving a multi-century aged Kahikatea forest is not minutae in  my view, its one of the most precious things we could do.   That forest still stands, and I have the images to add to the encyclopedia, I think the guy (Carl) who took his 4wd and fire extinguishers to that festival is worthy of having his name included. No one else had any, and there were a lot of fires in late march to keep warm. How would YOU have put out a motorbike that was crashed and burned under a 500 year Rimu tree, to save the tree, and forest, and prevent a mass evacuation and major financial disaster? Its easy pickings for a technically correct deletionist editor, such a long time ago and minimal web references, what about the possibilty of celebrating those kiwis that did that stuff for their country? Most of the alternative concepts expoused at the Nambassa festivals has come full circle, wind and solar energy, chemical free food, wholistic approach to life, the arts having a natural place in our society, etc etc. Art implies artist, music a musician, production requires engineers and support. Look, I suggest that you just enjoy the process for a while, and try hard at being supportive to the quest, whats the worst that could happen? you can kill whatever you want and I move the material to my own site somewhere else in cyberspace. These articles get funnelled off to unpaid and paid for search service and ranking sites, have you looked recently? try www.answers.com they dont seem to be in any hurry to delete old material.  My idea is to enjoy this beast not squabble about alleged minutae endlessly, i'm simply not going to continue that line. There is plenty of cleanup editing to be done, if youre really keen, I could point  you to a huge bunch of sites with clearly incorrect information, try 1951_in_New_Zealand remove the television references? I dont hear you bleating about that, its really boring stuff. try 1949_in_New_Zealand Triple J hottest 100? look its the best radio station in the world, pov, but it simply didnt exist until around 30 years after that article says it does. My point is trying to say lets chill and be a bit more tolerant, timewise, and balanced with our approach. Finally to create some reality, did you ever have a 135kilowatt sound system and 50,000 people under your fingers, and in your responsibilty? Did anyone ever trust and allow that to anyone you know? if so then you speak with authority, if not then perhaps we could find out from those who have what it is like, and share that to the world. How about a run to Police Headquarters to inform them of a drowning at the beach, and then standing with the Police line as 3000 angry people confronted them, throwing everything that they could put their hands on at the line. That scene is contained in a Television doco, that I have, and will deliver references to in due course. Who is notable in that context? the police names? the names of the 3000 demonstrators? the mediators names? the drowning reportee name? which bit is minutae? the drowning? tough call.moza 01:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The best way to determine such things is precedent, and as I observed above names of participants are only included when such participants are innovative or newsworthy. If someone did something newsworthy, then they should be mentioned, but that doesn't mean that all sound engineers need to be added as well. The builders of the Empire State Building don't get a mention, and they seem to be significant contributors to a very big project. Also, I did not propose deleting anything just yet ("hope that you intend to add verified references"), so don't assume that I'm quick to do so. I don't think it's relevant to bring in other articles; I'm talking about this one, not them. Z iggurat 01:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we are basically agreed, but drawing the line in different places. the scene was set by assuming bad faith and then stating that agf would apply, so thats confusing to most, but in sales its called a 'false objection'. Stratafication of humans by notability is definitely an interesting area of wiki, where most would push it very high, some consider lowering the entry levels. Jimbo says less credentials and more what they actually did. Stating that my intent was to add my name to wiki diverted the discussion into multiple subjects. If you believe that then you could be reasonably expected to delete the references, and certainly it will incite others to. I have been CLEARLY open with this, and I created the relevance to other articles to illustrate the gap between deletionists and inclusionists. I believe that is important to, and perhaps critical to, the future for this project. Being bold means challenging the precendents, otherwise nothing would ever develop, the society context is crucial, this is not NY. Sound Engineers are not welders of steel, but I see no reason why the welders couldnt have their own list, they do have a Nat Geo doco about them, they are a special type of people, and often many generations of father/son work up there on those buildings. Why should building a house or a whole subdivision of houses in NZ be any less important than someone who contributed to a jazz festival in the USA? My grandfather has a street named after him for his service to the community, but I doubt that would be aceptable here either. My father built countless houses from scratch. Please be aware that much of my comment is also responding to wholistic behaviour here, such as the vandal that wrote foul stuff on the Tangiwai Disaster site. That vandal likely lives in Penrose, why would a kiwi deface a memorial article to pay me back anonymously? There is much that we address together, in the name of a clean and organised site. I believe that the key personnel at those early music and alternative lifestlye festivals were indeed obviously innovative and newsworthy, so really we are back to verification of different pov's. There was no precedent for running a large event in NZ back then, we just did it, good old Kiwi faith in one-self, and the team. A good role model for wiki editors. moza 02:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope I haven't raised a false objection - I'm stating that I'm suspicious of adding what are (from my perspective) unencyclopedic details to an article that just so happen to be self-aggrandisement. Rather than jumping the gun and assuming so, however, I'm assuming that details of why they're added will be included in future edits to the article. I would also suggest that the best way to change policy is to propose a change to that policy rather than leading with the article itself; that's putting the cart before the horse. Z iggurat 03:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that there is danger, an element of risk, about people inserting information about themselves, but that can be cleaned up on the fly. The intent and meaning are clear in all edits, there is no self-aggrandisement that I can tell. There are no links. I could easily get someone else to do it, and that would encourage more suspicion, and be unhelpful, so from that pov its better that everyone knows that the source is me, and my records. It is definately a forum for my illustrative images, given freely and without expectation of reward, funny no one objects to that. Sometimes the cart is necessary to evoke the horse from cyderspace, and this article is one of many appearing on the web after a long dearth of information about the subjects, stimulating collaborative giving of diverse info about the subjects. I also agree that policy should be proposed but being bold, going outside the square, and testing the boundaries, are age-old human behavoural policies, and thats encouraged here as well. I believe that there are many stories to be told by and for Kiwis, and for the world to share, thats my prime directive, and wiki can be one of the vehicles to collect and disburse that information. My name is simply another. I run a bunch of non-profit sites purely to share images and info, encourage others to do the same, for 7 years now., check out my gift of Parhelia and CZA in the sky above the Cenotaph last week in Auckland. I even added the Ak cenotaph under the London Cenotaph image, in the wiki article. They are remarkably similiar. Now acquiring images of Parhelia and CZA may seem trivial, and categorised as minutae by many, but has anyone else here in nz wiki achieved that? Do you know how difficult it is? For me its all about sharing 4 minutes of joy in a lifetime of looking. The real challenge here is to stay positive and continue sharing, trying to understand the multiple rules in place. So has anyone gone and fixed those pages I mentioned? I dont expect it to happen any time soon. I'm still trying to understand why there is an attack on reality but false information is left alone even after repeated and long term notification! help me with that please..moza 03:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd hate to think that my comment was interpreted as an attack; I was making a suggestion. Comparisons like the ones you make above aren't really helpful unless they're a direct precedent; they're just straw men or unrelated info and make your comments very difficult to read. Z iggurat 04:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case I owe you an apology, sorry. At the very least we gave the readers of this page food for thought. It is a wide ranging thing, and it is difficult to contain. I prefer the softer side of life though, flexibility has survival advantages, many of those people i worked with back then are no longer around. At Mountain Rock backstage we were called the 'Dinosaurs of Rock' and that was 13 years ago.moza 06:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand Albums
User:Originalsinner has added several big lists of music charts and articles on NZ compilation albums See: List of New Zealand Compilation Albums and Category:New Zealand music. I've added most of New articles (New Zealand) as well. - SimonLyall 05:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else see Campbell live re Bess?
Lovely bit on CL with info which would make a nice entry on Wikipedia. It was about Bess, a New Zealand mare taken to World War 1 where it was the personal horse of Colonel Charles Guy Powles (whose son became our first ombudsman). Bess was wounded by a bullet at Gallipoli and after the pullout there, she served elsewhere right until the end of the war. Most horses on Gallipoli were shot before the retreat. Col Powles rode Bess through the streets of Berlin during the victory parade. Bess was shipped back to NZ, the only one of 10,000 something NZ horses to come back home. She died aged 24 and is buried ????????? WHERE?????????. There were images of her grave on teev but I didn't hear them say where it it located. For some reason the Turks at Gallipoli took a shine to Bess and her gravestone is written in Arabic. Thing is, did anyone else see this and hear where the gravestone is? I'd like to organise a photo if I can, and eventually write an article. Moriori 02:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Muriwai article needs help
I'm about to place a row of awesome images to this site, does anyone feel like adding txt and references? Its still only an 8 sentence article, and still a stub, after 17 months on wiki, with 4 sentences at creation. This is the counterpoise; positivity and action.moza 06:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I added images and headings etc, so now it looks a bit like an article should.moza 21:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Listener article next week on wikipedia
Russell Brown has posted on his blog that there will be an article on problems with wikipedia in next week's Listener. In the blog post he's highlighed some NZ political articles with problems. I'm not sure if next week's article will be mentioned the same articles but I guess there is a good chance. Can people have a look at what he says anyway. - SimonLyall 12:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I have not bought a Listener for years, better get one then :)
 * I hope its not all bad ~
 * Going by the blog I guess it will be about clakes article  Brian | (Talk)


 * I dropped Russell Brown a note about the article and heard back from him. He did some useful editing on a non-political New Zealand-related article (as an anon) as a result of my note. He says he's not very familiar with the editing tools, but I think he has a pretty good grasp of the dynamics of Wikipedia.


 * Most likely, his article will be available online. Here is his article in the current New Zealand Listener.-gadfium 19:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that the really interesting page is linked in there, Titled; "THE GREAT FAILURE OF WIKIPEDIA" - Transcription of a presentation/speech given by Jason Scott at at Notacon 3, April 8, 2006. here Its about human nature, call it sociology and psychology if you want, behaviour in this space. I think he's mostly correct, and worth reading. Einstein said "have an open mind, but not so open that your brain will fall out".moza 23:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The new Listener is now out (for subscribers, anyway), and Russell's column is all about Wikipedia, but there isn't any mention of the Helen Clark article (or any NZ related articles). It isn't available on the web yet.-gadfium 03:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Now online. I've added it to Press coverage.-gadfium 02:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Bethels Beach article for comment
I created an article for Bethells Beach, a special place for all who know of it. Its a bit lacking in anything unique or important in wiki terms though, and could do with some help. At least it looks like an article should. The images give a sense of what it might be like to be there i hope.moza 21:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * ok, egg on my face, can someone help me redirect the Bethels Beach to Bethells Beach please.moza 23:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * done. Moriori 23:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * cool, must learn that.moza 02:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

NZCOTF
It seems that a few new users have joined in the current NZCOTF.:)

Its starting to look like a nice article, well done everybody :) Brian | (Talk) 22:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't have any contributions to make myself (I know very little about the actual case), but I'm most impressed with the result. Splendid work. Z iggurat 23:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Auckland's West Coast Beaches
I have progressed the articles to a minimum standard, but it would be good to have them looked at by a cross section of editors sometime to tidy up the loose ends and pull them into a whatever the standard is. They could do with geological and ecological descriptions for instance. There are 6; Muriwai, Bethells Beach, Anawhata, Piha,Karekare, and Whatipu. At some future time and motivation I would like to create a summary article with a topo map and directions to each beach, a useful tool for visitors. There is a richness of imagery on that piece of coast that is simply astounding, and I will continue to visit, collect, and share as I have for nearly 40 years. moza 02:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You forgot to include Karekare in your list.-gadfium 05:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * more egg! fixed, thanks for the pic size change, Piha needs pic layout fixed, but they look good. I am loath to adjust other contributors pics too much.moza 06:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

MP's
It appers that some if the MP's articles need going through, and correcting, for example Mark Burton article still has him down as Minister of Defence. I wonder how many there are that have not been updated after last years General Election Brian | (Talk) 06:08, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It's also worth considering that many countries have articles on all their electoral constituencies. ISTR there are quite a number missing from New Zealand, and those that are there are quite often pretty skimpy. Grutness...wha?  06:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Patricia Bartlett
An anon has put a POV-check template on this article, but hasn't explained why. I don't think the article is perfect, but I think it does a reasonable job. Could someone not involved with the article take a look, and either remove the template or put a few notes about issues to be addressed on the talk page.-gadfium 01:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I got three different responses on the talk page, and the article got a free copyedit! That's great service.-gadfium 03:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Alexa Internet rating
Many of you will be aware that Wikipedia has been the 17th most popular site on the internet for some time, as measured by Alexa Internet and occasionally reported at Announcements. Alexa is now producing lists of the top web site by country, and Wikipedia is the 8th most popular web site in New Zealand. . Somewhere in Wikipedia, I saw a breakdown of ranking of Wikipedia by country, and I think there was one country where Wikipedia was 7th most popular, and several where it was 8th. I can't find where I saw that any more though.-gadfium 03:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Per country stuff is Awareness_statistics - SimonLyall 07:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm running an Alexa plug in with Mozilla Firefox and tracking the changes of a raft of key sites. I find it quite fascinating how all wiki sites rank high on alexa, with or without any page rank by google, and even after only existing for a few days. Wiki main page has a google page rank of 9/10 and an alexa ranking of 17, while google.com has a page rank of 10/10 and an alexa of 2. Now Bethells Beach was only just created a few days ago and doesnt have a page rank yet, but has an alexa of 17. Ben Hana has a google page rank of 4/10 and an alexa of 17. Astronomy NZ has a google rank of 4/10 and an alexa of 1,212,963. METVUW has a google rank of 5/10 and an alexa of 68,693. Metvuw has a million hits a week i'm told, and its an official NZ weather site, where i'm getting about 900 a month to each of my main sites. I think anything by google over 3 is significant and under a million by alexa is good. I believe google is more relevant, when comparing pages inside a site, such as wiki though. Google Page ranks of 6 for wiki Auckland and 7 for wiki Wellington are open to question though. The number system is non-linear i believe as well, so bear that in mind; its increasingly harder to increment a google page rank by 1 (I'm only 1 behind metvuw on lots of my sites for instance). What do others think here? how does it get interpreted to judge the importance of a site? ie what are the numerical thresholds to attain?moza 15:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think alexa only tracks the top level domain, so all of wikipedia.org gets a single ranking. They do provide a breakdown for one level down, so en.wikipedia.org does have distinct statistics from es.wikipedia.org.
 * I presume you have to use the Google toolbar to be able to see page ranks. I might try it. Any disadvantages of running it? I'm on 64-bit Linux, but most Firefox extensions seems to work okay.-gadfium 19:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * its a dual function app from quirk called SearchStatus. I hate the idea of the toolbar sending back my tracks to those orgs, but its a small price to pay. I only use it on one of my many machines, the others are stripped down for max performance in data-mining.moza 06:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Kumeu Article
Hey guys, as I posted on Talk:Kumeu, New Zealand, the article is non factual (at least two of the wineries mentioned as Kumeu do not class themselves as Kumeu and are in fact geographically not), seems to be bias (who says that the BP is the landmark of Kumeu, I live around there, and I never heard anyone say that).

My suggestion to combat this, is for Kumeu, Waimauku, Huapai to be made into one article, maybe something like Kumeu & Neighbouring Townships, New Zealand, it may also be an idea to move the Muriwai article into it, as it is a stub and could be better off in just a subsection (like Waimauku etc).

The main reason for this is that neither Kumeu, Waimauku or Huapai are of very large population, but each respective area has features that could be used to create a seperate article for each, but not enough to make them not a stub (kind of like Muriwai at the moment). --NigelJ talk 08:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey Nigel, I have edited Kumeu to a point where it can remain as is until until we ever get separate articles about Kumeu, Waimauku and Huapai. Okay? Moriori 09:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Kumeu's the best-known of the three (I've moved the article to Kumeu, BTW - there's no need to disambiguate the only Kumeu in the world with a Wikipedia article!). I've also made redirects from Huapai and Waimauku to it. If needed they can later be expanded to separate articles, but I don't really see the need for it yet (though they'd be a long way from being the smallest places in the world with articles here!) Grutness...wha?  10:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Grutness: Hence the reason why I suggested a combined article, it seems much better than having seperate articles for the three closely neighboured places, maybe "Kumeu District" would be better, with a layout something to the effect of:

General information about Kumeu area (mainly first paragraph of Kumeu

Kumeu
Population: 5670 (2001)

A&P Show stuff, Kumeu wineries etc

Huapai
Population: whatever (whenever)

Huapai District school info, Huapai wineries info etc

Waimauku
Population: whatever (whenever)

Waimauku Primary School, Waimauku wineries (mainly Matua), Cornerstone project etc...

Muriwai (maybe)
(etc...)

This would create in my opinion an effective little article about the area, without really having wasted pages/pages with stubs. When the sections get bigger, they could be moved back into the pages that would be held as redirects to the article. Each section could maybe include a photo or two of the main area (I would be happy to take them, as I basicly live there). --NigelJ talk 11:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * NigelJ, good to see your concern and energy. My idea would be like Moriori, bring the article up to standard and start work on those others when the material comes to hand or someone seeks it out. Personally i hate melded articles and especially with longish titles but each to his own, sometimes it works. I just cleaned up Muriwai so please tell me what you think it needs now. I was in Kumeu thursday last week and while i didn't notice the BP i did stock up on fruit and veges, fresher and cheaper than Wellington; blueberries, local grapes like my grandma grew (incredibly yummy), etc. I could have taken a pic for the article had i been asked. I took a couple of thousand that week as it was, so a few more wouldnt hurt. How about some local images, and some headings, etc, and be happy with that?moza 11:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Moza, see my suggestion above. If people honestly think that seperate pages would be the best way to go right now, i'd be happy to work on them, but I just thing that for now, it should maybe classed as one article. --NigelJ talk 11:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * yes, i believe youre correct, apart from Muriwai, and if I were you, I would just proceed and build as good an article as I could. The Ak astronomers have a frequent observing program going in Kumeu. Theres likely quite enough history to make a useful article. Someone will make a map if you ask.moza 11:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't really mind articles that are agglomerates where they make sense, and I get the impression that this one might. Often I see links to articles in Wikipedia that turn out to be single-liners, so it was a waste of time click on the link to see what's there that wasn't in the page linking to it, and one could not possibly imagine what else could be said that's really noteworthy. Kumeu (District) sounds like a good name to me. See an example below with TUI (inventory)!. Mona-Lynn 15:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * So from my understanding, after proper explaination, there seems to be a level of agreement, with this, so unless anyone has any serious objections, Grutness: could you please move (again) Kumeu to Kumeu (District) --NigelJ talk 21:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done, but as Kumeu (district). Since it's not an official designation of the place, the capital "D" is against WP naming standards. Grutness...wha?  07:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, just putting in my format for the article now. --NigelJ talk 08:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)  - P.S> Grutness: Where on earth did you get the Kumeu population count from? --NigelJ talk 09:24, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * NigelJ. here is the source of data, it only works properly in IE browsers though.

Kumeu Map, Kumeu Statistics. It works anywhere else in NZ, but only from AU (area unit) and larger boundaries. We pay for smaller boundary data, I use it every day. The AU approximates a suburb, and typically has 5000 people per area.moza 14:34, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * An area unit can be a very bad approximation to the suburb most people think of when they hear the AU's name, so it pays to be careful with these figures. Here it's not too bad a fit with the district, with the Kumeu area unit apparently including Huapai and Waimauku. However Riverhead (the settlement) also appears to fall within the Kumeu area unit boundary (even though the area unit to the north of the Kumeu area unit is called Riverhead), so the population figure is probably a bit too high. -- Avenue 15:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * absolutely agree, thats why we use meshblock data, and also aggregate it up to suburb/locality, for professional purposes. There are 1774 AU's and 3000 odd suburb/localities, and 38,000 meshblocks in NZ. I see that whole west coast area below Muriwai is contained in 'Karekare' area unit, and that proves your point. I could mine the Kumeu town meshblocks but i dont think its necessary, but I'll do it for Nigel if he wants it.moza 16:04, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

TUI (inventory)
This one went up for discussion for deletion a few months ago but got no discussion. Do we have an administrator in the house who can just go and delete it? This system is mentioned in The Warehouse and no other company uses it. Mona-Lynn 15:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Lynley Dodd and her books: My Cat Likes To Hide In Boxes
I just set about improving these articles and could use some help with the Hairy Maclary series :) I'm pretty sure everyone in NZ has read them at some stage, but I hadn't realised just how popular they were: MCLTHIB is ranked #7,239 on amazon.co.uk (after ~30 years) and the top Hairy Maclary book pops its head in at #1,682 —porg es (talk) 02:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Concord Dawn
Hello all. I have just come across Concord Dawn which is marked as a stub. I'm not sure it actually is a stub, but anyway that's how it's labelled at the moment. Just flagging it in case anybody wants to have a look. Mona-Lynn 02:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right - definitely not a stub, but it did need a category (it's got one now). And I like their new "Chaos by design" album, too :) Grutness...wha?  05:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Capital of New Zealand
Hello I've put up a query at talk:Wellington. Please join discussion there. :-) &mdash; Instantnood 09:18, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Pic request - Hollyford Track
Hi all - I've started expanding the tiny stub article we had on the Hollyford Track, and some pictures would be very nice. If anyone has a couple of pics of the area they could upload it'd be much appreciated! Grutness...wha?  05:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Helen Clark controversies section and a pic of Richard Prebble
There has been a discussion between User:Wallie and myself (mainly) about whether there should be a photo of Richard Prebble in the controversies section. We aren't going to come to an agreement, so we want other people's imput. Come join in at Talk:Helen Clark. Furthermore, the article still needs a lot of work, please come along and remove the POV still in the article. --Midnighttonight 23:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Photo of frog
Does anybody have a photo of your native frog? Or have the ability to get one, as Leiopelmatidae is one of the few frog families which is missing a photo. I would really appreciate the contribution. Thanks --liquidGhoul 23:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There are some photos on the Department of Conservation website that may be freely reproduced under the terms of crown copyright. There's a nice one with both an Archey's and Hochstetter frog here, and a few others . there are some great ones here , but I'm unsure of their copyright status.--Limegreen 01:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there a template for crown copyright images similar to Template:PD-USGov-Interior-USGS and the like? Z iggurat 01:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys, I will use them once I can figure out what licence to use. --liquidGhoul 02:44, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, it looks like Crown copyright is still copyrighted, and not PD. It seems the US is pretty unique in that respect. --liquidGhoul 02:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Try Template:NZCrownCopyright. Best, Z iggurat 02:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Done, it is now in Leiopelmatidae and List of Anuran families. Thanks a lot. --liquidGhoul 03:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, so that didn't work out. Could everyone keep their eyes open for one. The articles really need one. Thanks. :) --liquidGhoul 00:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There are also some good photos here, but again we'd need the owner's approval to release them under the GFDL. -- Avenue 02:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe we can find a private website, and ask them if they would be willing to release it under GFDL? Frog people are nice, there is a chance. --liquidGhoul 05:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have emailed one person. He had some beautiful photos, and didn't have copyright planted all over his website (actually I didn't see it at all!). --liquidGhoul 05:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If you haven't already read it, you might find the explanation at Boilerplate request for permission useful in making sure you get the right sort of permission. (It must be licensed under the GFDL or a compatible license such as cc-by-sa). -- Avenue 10:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

anybody got some spare time
There are a number of images here which would be really good to have on Wikipedia. But, permission is needed from the National Library of New Zealand. Anyone willing to get it? --Midnighttonight 10:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Ben Hana peer review nomination
The article needs help, and I imagine a better method would be to nominate it for NZ collaboration of the fortnight, but I'm quite bored with it, and the whole Ben Hana article history, otherwise I would just get in there and follow the review requesters points, which seem to make sense. I have copied the points to the article talk page to see who responds and what happens. The review process could well do with some help, and maybe thats improving the article up to the best that we can do.moza 04:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Nambassa article almost ready for review
This article now represents the most significant central source on the internet about the community, and the series of events created by the community. That includes the largest ever music and lifestyle festival in NZ, and is therefore an historical record. I am concerned about source references being included, and I will continue to work on that aspect, crucial to any long term wiki article stability. I can say that any missing references cam be supplied, and I will relay them to the article. The sources are all in existence, and carefully curated by the Nambassa Trust, along with The Film Archive and a few other organisations. There are more images available today, and I need to learn how to force them to stay with their relevant section of the article, thats my current focus. I'm sure we would all like to receive productive criticism that leads to a better article, or perhaps split off to other worthwhile articles, thanks.moza 05:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Māori welcomes its 150th member
See mi:User_talk:Joe. Please come and have a look if you haven't recently! Robin Patterson 20:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Userbox for NZcollab
By adding to your userpage, it will produce

Enjoy! --Midnighttonight 09:54, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

2006 New Zealand budget
I have started an article on the 2006 New Zealand budget (which is been presented today) It will need a lot of work as info come available, Is it worth having an article on it? I believe other countries have articles on them through. Brian | (Talk) 21:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Weta
Hokay - I've gone in and made quite a lot of changes to weta, this week's collaboration. A lot of reorg and added some info too. Could somebody get rid of that ugly white space under the index? Looking forward to more changes to the article as it still needs a lot of work, particularly in terms of how wetas live, their features, etc. Mona-Lynn 04:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Z iggurat 04:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi again - thanks for that! There still seems to be something wrong with the formatting of that page, placement of pictures or something. I have no skills in that area yet. Mona-Lynn 08:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Who was Kim ????
Wikipedia has this article on that truly marvellous cartoon/comic strip called Love Is... which was syndicated world wide for many years (and still is) and made the day for countless of millions of people needing a little cheering up, Nowhere does the article mentiion that Kim the artist was a New Zealander. I recall reading somewhere that she sold many of what she called her "doodles" to a couple of NZ papers before setting off on her OE and meeting the man she eventually married. She worked under her married name of Casali. Anyone know what her maiden name was? Her birth name is GROVE. She deserves an article, or at the very least, a decent mention in the Love is... article. Moriori 08:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure you're right that she was a kiwi - I also STR that she was part of one of the first even court cases for wanting to use the frozen sperm of her dead husband to conceive, but my memory's a little shaky on that one. Grutness...wha?  08:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * According to this site, it was Kim Grove (and I was right about the court case). BTW, the Love Is... article looks suspiciously like a copyvio from here. Grutness...wha?  08:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Grove. Met her once in Sydney. Will try to add a bit to the Love Is... article, and rewrite it a bit to eliminate the copyvio problem. It's funny how anomalies are found in articles that have existed for some time. I saw tonight someone pointing out that the Samantha Eggar article has her currently married to THREE different men!!! Moriori 09:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The Catlins Article of the day Congratulations
A big thanks and congratulations is due to all who contributed to the article The Catlins, for making it to the article of the day. The image of the best looking waterfall in NZ was cool on the main page, and the high res looks good as a desktop background on a large lcd. check it out. Experiencing that fossil forest will never be forgotten, with tree trunks lying everywhere and stumps still standing. There is another waterfall that I have pics of, and I will give, when I pull them out of storage. Having your picture on the main page of the worlds 17th most used website is a real achievement, and deserves recognition. Take a bow, James, aka User:Grutness.... Thanks from us all!! moza 12:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I second that, well done all Brian | (Talk) 12:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you both - but credit where it's due: User:Avenue did at least as much towards the article as I did and deserves much of the credit, and several other editors chipped in with useful work, too. Glad you like the photo, too :) Grutness...wha?  04:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you - although I'm sure Grutness did at least as much on the article as I did, too. -- Avenue 13:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)"
 * Yes, I was going to say thanks to Avenue as well, but then i thought maybe that would leave out all the other editors, and I was in a hurry, so I trusted you would all know that. It was your pic though.. I see Avenue's work all over the place and I am grateful for that as well!! The key point is that you guys put NZ on the map, and thats a really good thing for all New Zealanders. The Catlins is one of the special places left on the planet, no poison creatures, no dangerous animals, easy access (drive in!!), lots of beautiful and diverse scenery, it FEELS very calm and pure, and building awareness of that is probably the only way we are going to preserve it.moza 00:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * As long as it doesn't get flooded with tourists as a result! :) I must admit to being biased as far as the Catlins are concerned - I may be an import to NZ (a pom by birth) but my dad was born in Romahapa, not far from Owaka. That's probably the reason I started working on the article in the first place. Grutness...wha?  01:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Salient (magazine)
For those that don't know, Salient (magazine) is the Vic Uni Students Assoc magazine. Its been tagged with having a POV section by the university's IP address, so the tagger could be one of 20,000 students. So can people have a read through of the section and tell me if they think there is a POV problem. If there is, I will fix it, but I can't really work it out at the moment. --Midnighttonight 07:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Old Saint Paul's
One of the images on Old Saint Paul's is currently being considered to become a featured pick. If it does, it would be great to see the Old Saint Paul's article have more info. --Midnighttonight 03:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Auckland University of Technology
I'd like some eyes/feedback on this article. At the beginning of the month, an anon added some pretty heavy material to the "General Information" section. I added a request for a citation, and later modified the text heavily following discussion on the talk page. One user and/or anon has reverted to earlier wording twice, but the earlier wording is I feel unencyclopedic brochure text.

Should we remove the controversial paragraph entirely, or can it be improved?-gadfium 09:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Russel Norman
The new Greens co-leader, Russel Norman, needs his article improved. --Midnighttonight 04:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Article assessment
This process has been restarted, and is looking for articles relating to war to review. I entered 1931 Hawke's Bay earthquake into the first round, which dealt with natural disasters, and although the article didn't fare very well it certainly prompted me to improve the article.

Does anyone want to adopt one of the articles from Category:New Zealand land wars, or Category:Military history of New Zealand during World War II and enter it for this round? I don't have time at the moment-gadfium 04:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

New Zealand Parliament; New Zealand House of Representatives
As per Talk:New Zealand Parliament, I have split the New Zealand Parliament article into two: New Zealand Parliament and New Zealand House of Representatives. At the moment, they resemble each other quite a bit. I plan to change that slowly, and ask other people do to. They are quite seperate bodies (legally at least). --Midnighttonight 03:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * articles which link to New Zealand Parliament will need to slowly be worked through, however that is minor really. --Midnighttonight 04:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Tourism
Yes I know there is a separate article called Tourism in New Zealand but does anyone agree that the main New Zealand article should have a small two-three par section called Tourism, complete with. Tourism is a major player in the economy, and we're not known as God's Own Country for nothing. The article seems rather sterile to me and a little blowing of trumpet could help. Moriori 21:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree :) Z iggurat 21:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, if it's a sub-section of Economy (to stay within the WikiProject Countries framework). -- Avenue 00:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Turangawaewae
There's recently been a huge textdump of info at Turangawaewae. I've started to tidy it up, but it's quite strongly POV and whiffs faintly of copyvio. Anyone who know the subject like to attempt a proper tidy-up? Grutness...wha?  11:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

James Cook
Currently the James Cook article barely mentions much about his discovery of New Zealand. Literally on his first visit to NZ is:
 * Cook managed to reach New Zealand, becoming only the second European in history to do so (after Abel Tasman over a century earlier, in 1642). Cook mapped the complete New Zealand coastline, making only some minor errors (such as calling Banks Peninsula an island, and thinking Stewart Island/Rakiura was part of the South Island). He also discovered Cook Strait, which separates the North Island from the South Island, and which Tasman had not seen.

So anyone with an interest in history, might like to consider building that up. --Midnighttonight 01:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)