Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 34

Wellington WikiCon 11 & 12 March 2023
Tēnā koutou,

Planning is underway for a Wikipedia conference in Wellington in March 2023. You are all welcome. The event will be over a weekend Saturday 11th and Sunday 12th March 2023. The venue is in Island Bay at the Home of Compassion. The program has a mixture of events for experienced or brand new editors. The aims are to: Like all good conferences there will also be lots of time for chatting too.
 * share information about Wikimedia platforms with new and existing audiences and editors
 * create a space for skill sharing and development in all areas of Wikimedia

Please bookmark the Wellington WikiCon 2023 page for program information and updates. Register a place through Wellington Wikicon 2023 at lilregie.com. It is catered and we are asking for a small fee of $10 per day to help cover our costs (unless your workplace pays for you then it is $25 / day).

Currently we are only offering in-person (unless someone comes forward to organise an on-line component). There are some travel subsidies available for people out of Wellington, and also scholarships for Māori or Pasifika participants. Email the coordinator Lisa Maule with expressions of interest, any feedback or questions (contact information in links).

To mitigate risk of Covid-19 participants will wear face masks in group settings.

Please let us know if you have suggestions for spreading the word - for example a newsletter of a group you are part of we could send information. We are also interested in suggestions for topics or speakers.

Ngā mihi & happy new year,

Lisa and Sofia (Wellington WikiCon 2023 organisers) How to contact us see this page:Wellington WikiCon 2023 Pakoire (talk) 00:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Yealands wines attempted greenwash and COI editing
Hi folks, can someone please have a look at Yealands Estate and in particular the edits by a user called "Yealands Digital" in October (I'm not sure how I missed it then). I've tried to politely warn them (clearly someone in their marketing department) before that Wikipedia is not a brochure. I think we need an admin to block them or something, and restore the article to before the October edits, which are straight greenwash marketing copy and entirely uncited. Oh and happy new year! Jon (talk) 10:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Very clearly promotional and very probably WP:COI. Last edit was in October so rather stale for any more warnings. All reverted back to before promotional additions. Regards  Velella  Velella Talk 13:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Handling high profile legal cases
Does anyone know of any guidelines created for handling these cases on NZ Wikipedia? Specifically, when to have an article title as the crime, and when to have it about the criminal? The Bain family murders, Taine Pore, The Lundy murders etc. Currently there's a discussion at Talk:Murders of Ben Smart and Olivia Hope, which has become the Scott Watson conviction article. Similar variation occurs in similar overseas articles. As a general rule, I think there has been agreement that the crime is usually what is notable and so that is the article title but there is a grey area where the perpetrator or the court case takes over as becoming more relevant. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:06, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The article in question is about the disappearance, investigation and trial. The "criminal" is only mentioned from half way through the article when the investigation focused on him.
 * This user has strong feelings about the case, and has vandalised the article because they are uncomfortable with the article being neutral, rather than suggesting that it was a wrongful conviction. Stumpy2121 (talk) 08:39, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any NZ-specific guidelines, but it seems WP:CRIME might have some guidelines which are useful. This sort of stuff is generally pretty outside my wheelhouse so I'll limit getting too involved, but I think Dubiousources is right with their point that WP:NPOV requires that we cover both the conviction and its contentiousness in a neutral and encyclopedic way, as well as that if the article is about the crime then we kinda have to cover the person convicted of committing it (WP:CRIME has some stuff on this too which may be helpful). Turnagra (talk) 08:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Stumpy2121, I suggest you take a deep breath before throwing out unsubstantiated accusations against any editor. See wp:AGF wp:NPA. I think any new editor who jumps into an article with 200-300 edits in a couple of days is bound to raise a few eyebrows, genuine or not. FWIW, you do seem to be genuine. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the article in 2021 and am not a "new editor".
 * That user has strongly advocated for rewriting the article as a wrongful conviction and removed a large amount of factual information from the article in that pursuit. You youself complained about the biased nature of a section they added in the talk page for said article. Stumpy2121 (talk) 10:01, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not acquainted with the case, but the fact that this problem has arisen suggests that the article should be split into separate articles dealing with the murders and the trial. Furius (talk) 17:30, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not clear from your brief contribution what aspects of the case you think should be separated from what other aspects - let alone why they should be separated. Can I suggest that you get aquainted with the case before responding. Dubiousources (talk) 21:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Just pointing out that this is quite close to the User talk:Offender9000 case, they were strongly interested in New Zealand criminal justice and has been blocked for a long period. Hopefully this is not them returning. I was involved in that situation, but don't really want to be involved in this. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Internet Archive Bot is working again
Here is some good news for those who do a lot of work on articles. The Internet Archive Bot (IAbot) is back working again. It has not been functioning since late October, but is now working again. For those unfamiliar with this tool, it is a really valuable aid for authors because it automates the process of adding archives to citations to protect them from link rot (such as when organisations re-structure their websites and links no longer work). The archive also captures the source as it was when the archive was made – and so protects an article against changes in the original source. Archives can be added manually, but it is a slow and cumbersome process, and this is a disincentive for articles with lots of references. The IABot can only archive what it can access - so this limits it to online sources, but it is still very useful and a great time-saver. I recommend this tool to all those who are frequently working on articles.

The IAbot can be found here: https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php  To use it select Run Bot >Fix a single page  (new users of the tool will need to login with your Wikipedia credentials, and grant permissions). Then enter the name of the page, and click the box “Add archives to all non-dead references (Optional)”. Then click Analyse. Pages with loads of references may take several minutes to run. You then are expected to look at the page that has been analysed, to view the changes and to check at least a few of the archives to make sure they work OK.

A very useful tool. It is great that it is working again. Marshelec (talk) 08:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks to everyone that contributed to getting this working again! I wasn't aware of it until the issue of it not working was raised - looks like a really useful tool for Wikipedia editors. David Nind 18:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Nind (talk • contribs)
 * Regrettably, it seems I spoke too soon. I did test the IABot successfully on some smaller pages today, and it works fine. Unfortunately, it seems to crash when analysing some larger articles (where ironically it is of the most value). The underlying problem that led to the failure in October has not yet been addressed - a work-around was implemented, but it appears that the underlying problem may still be causing difficulties. I have reported this problem again. The active thread for this problem is: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T326609 Please add yourself as a subscriber to either monitor progress or add your support for a timely resolution. Sighs. Marshelec (talk) 23:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Good news. After some further work by the developer, the IABot is working correctly on large articles.The largest I have processed recently had 54 citations. It is possibly a bit slower than it used to be, but it is working :) -- Marshelec (talk) 23:56, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Return of regular Auckland-based meetups
With assistance from Auckland War Memorial Museum we are pleased to announce that regular monthly meetups will resume for the Auckland region. We will be alternating between in-person and online sessions as we begin to get into a rhythm again. Our first session will be 11am-1pm on the 18th of February, at the Research Library at Auckland Museum. Feel free to bookmark the meetup page for more information and details, and we appreciate any support and interest that local editors might have the capacity to provide. Dactylantha (talk) 00:23, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Wonderful news! Not an Auckland-based editor but have family up there so hope to pop in on occasion. :) Chocmilk03 (talk) 02:33, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikimania Scholarships Open
Letting everyone know that Wikimania Scholarships can now be applied for! Wikimania 2023 will run from 16-19 August in Singapore. To apply for scholarships and obtain further information see this page. Ambrosia10 (talk) 03:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Green Party images
I know that the Green Party is usually pretty generous with image use rights, but is there a general waiver archived somewhere? I've noticed that File:Chlöe Swarbrick headshot.jpg is uploaded with a Creative Commons licence as the author's work, but it looks to be an official photo with no evidence of ownership by the uploader. Adabow (talk) 07:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Yeah, they gave a confirmation a while ago - I think this is the response, saved on commons. Turnagra (talk) 08:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm not sure that this is a watertight release on all future images but it seems to be all there is. Adabow (talk) 07:22, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it may be worth getting in touch with them again to confirm it - we should probably give some of the other parties another shot at some point too, there are lots of MPs missing images (see the list on WP:NZCTF) where there are potential ones online that don't have the right licences. Turnagra (talk) 08:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and if I might politely request of whoever takes that on, please start with Rawiri Waititi and Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. As party leaders they should be top of the list. (I did have someone with a respectable photo of Waititi, but they were unwilling to put it up.) — HTGS (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Wellington Wiki Meetup - Saturday 21 January 2023
The first monthly Wellington Wiki Meetup for 2023 will be held in person on the 21st of January from 10am at the He Matapihi Molesworth Library at National Library, corner Molesworth and Aitken Streets, Wellington. See the meetup page Meetup/Wellington/Meetup 21 January 2023 for more information. Ambrosia10 (talk) 21:33, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Grammar question re New Zealand English
In the history section on the New Zealand Labour Party Leader article, I am just curious about the use of the verb 'is' rather than 'was' on two occasions when giving details of the longest service of individuals as a Labour Party leader and as a Labour Prime Minister. In British English the verb tense usually is consistent throughout a sentence hence when giving that they 'had' (past tense) served a given period the use of 'is' (present tense) rather than 'was' (past tense) feels strange. Or is this just a difference between British English and New Zealand English? Havercroft Gypsy (talk) 09:03, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you repeat that but with links and examples? It's hard to understand what you mean. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to: "Clark is also the party's longest-serving leader, having served for 14 years, 346 days between 1993 and 2008. Peter Fraser is the longest-serving Labour Prime Minister, serving 9 years, 261 days between 1940 and 1949." at Leader of the New Zealand Labour Party? The word 'had' is not in either of those sentences. Are you referring to different sentences? Nurg (talk) 09:31, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes those are the two sentences. In British English (though I do not know if it is the same for New Zealand English) if you use 'is' it implies that they are still serving. Let me explain: 'served' is past tense in the bit about Clark hence a fixed completed time period of 14 years, 346 days; likewise although 'serving' is not actually a verb rather an intro for the phrase that follows (I cannot actually remember the name of the grammar term) nevertheless the phrase contains a fixed completed time period of 9 years, 261 days between 1940 and 1949. It is like if we were writing about H.M. Queen Elizabeth II we would now use 'was' not 'is' Queen from 1952-2022. Or if we were stating Margaret Thatcher as first female prime minister here in the U.K. we would say she 'was' not 'is'.
 * Just on passing, the immediate sentence before the one on Clark is actually okay because it is a separate sentence. Hope this helps. Havercroft Gypsy (talk) 10:04, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The Labour Party still exists in the present. A current or future leader could exceed the terms of those mentioned. So it is correct in NZ English, in my opinion. Funnily enough, I think the first sentence of that article is ungrammatical in NZ English though. Nurg (talk) 10:40, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Havercroft Gypsy, you are making more out of this than need be. In writing, NZ English is the same as UK English. The only difference would be a greater use of certain words and phrases, most notably words taken in from Maori, and it is questionable whether using different words without a gramatical change constitutes a different dialect anyway. So, in terms of grammar they are the same. If you think there is some grammatical error in a text then change it. If others disagree, it will be reverted. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see an issue with the use of 'is' in either of those sentences, for the reason Nurg mentioned. They're still the longest reigning leader if they're not currently in office until that record is broken. The only situation I could see it making more sense to use "was" would be something like "Helen Clark was the longest serving leader until x surpassed her length in office on y". Turnagra (talk) 02:10, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In reply to the grammar issue, is/was is a never ending circular debate. It depends on the context. Using present to refer to a past event is perfectly acceptable in English. This has nothing to do UK-NZ English, or any other version of English. One tense might be better to use also for consistency or clarity on wikipedia. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:00, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel like using a consistent tense would be nigh-on impossible and cause more issues than it solves - but I agree that I don't see it as a distinction between dialects of English. For clarity, my message wasn't intended as a reply to yours, but it looks as though it is because your reply wasn't indented. Turnagra (talk) 03:13, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * All good - I sometimes revert back to the left to avoid an endless move to the right. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 05:14, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

As an aside, a good way of avoiding an endless move to the right, while still maintaining the appearance of a thread, is to use the outdent template, as I have done here. Paora (talk) 22:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Interestingly, that doesn't seem to show up when using the wikipedia app. Turnagra (talk) 04:23, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Images and OpenStreetMap maps of Marine Reserves
I understand that this might be slightly outside the remit of a WikiProject, but figure it's worth raising given the overlap. I'm doing some work on the Marine reserves of New Zealand page (which can be seen at my sandbox), part of which is to include maps from OSM of each area. In doing so, however, I've noticed that a fair few of them are either missing images or haven't yet been added to OpenStreetMap. I'm still getting my head around the latter, but on the off chance that anyone on this project has some spare time and OSM experience I think it'd be worthwhile adding the missing reserves to the map to ensure it's as up to date as possible. In addition, if anyone has any images of the reserves missing them then that would also be much appreciated. So far, I've identified the following gaps:

I may have missed some, but I think this gets the bulk of it so far. There are also some more which only have panoramas as images, but I figure that getting a more suitable image is less of a priority when there's at least something which works in the interim. Turnagra (talk) 09:28, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Of the users working within the WPNZ realm, is probably the one who is most clued up about mapping.  Schwede  66  09:44, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks awesome Turnagra! I can do a few. I have sorted some in fiorldand to start with as noted with a ✅. My experiance is it can take a few days for these OSM Relations to come through. I will work on the others over the nex few days/weeks. Some are quite complex and may even be above my skill level. Will se how I go. ShakyIsles (talk) 08:24, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Love your work on pulling these together - now if only we could get someone to travel to these places and take some pictures! Turnagra (talk) 06:33, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Princes Street, Dunedin
Princes Street, Dunedin has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:45, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Interview with Dr Jess Wade - creating content in Wikipedia about women scientists
This morning on RNZ, there was an item on the contribution of Dr Jess Wade to creating content in Wikipedia about women scientists. Here is the link: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018874831/dr-jess-wade-the-physicist-fighting-for-women-in-science Marshelec (talk) 22:28, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * It was a great interview. Nearly half an hour long; worth listening to. And Jess Wade has a Wiki bio, too, including a rather fun photo.  Schwede 66  00:57, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks great! You may be aware that previously I made a commitment write wiki bios of all living female professors. I'm sorry but I'm having to withdraw my offer, since I'm currently indefinitely WP:TBAN'd from biographies of living people. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, definitely one of the saddest WP stories, Stuart. I hope this will rectify itself at some point.  Schwede 66  20:25, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Currently teaching myself WP:AWB, if anyone knows of stuff that needs doing. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:30, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It's useful for updating both prose and links for common name when an article got moved. When I'm in the mood for AWB, I generally look at lists. I have this script installed and that highlights redirects, which makes finding target articles straightforward.  Schwede 66  20:47, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing the NZETC links to Wikiproject Cook Islands articles. IdiotSavant (talk) 01:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Someone else is going to have to do the links that are in BLPs (and false positives in my filter for BLPs which was fairly broad). Stuartyeates (talk) 19:47, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Rātana
Happy Rātana day! It’s a little late to get ahead of the curve, but if anyone around here has the time, insight and inclination we currently have two articles on the Rātana Movement and Rātana Church that could use some attention, at Rātana and Te Haahi Ratana. My inclination is to merge the two, but I’m far from expert, and I don’t really have a lot of (any) spare time at the moment. Note Te Haahi Ratana currently has zero sourcing. There will be a bunch of readily accessible news floating around from the last few days that should at least cover the basics though (eg ). — HTGS (talk) 22:12, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I've long had the view that we should have two articles covering Rātana and wasn't aware of Te Haahi Ratana. First article should cover the historic political party and the second article should cover the church / faith. If there's any moving of material happening, I suggest that is a logical breakdown.  Schwede 66  01:56, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems as though the same merge has been proposed historically, and though it was low engagement it seemed to favour keeping the two distinct along the same lines as what Schwede suggested. I don't know anywhere near enough about Rātana to have a view one way or the other, but I'm happy to try and dig around for some sources or help out where I can. Turnagra (talk) 04:28, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've done some editing on the Rātana article and some of the refences may be of value for Te Haahi Ratana. Pakoire (talk) 21:39, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 25
This one is for people who do historic preservation. Heritage New Zealand apparently now use "Category 1" and "Category 2" instead of "Category I" and "Category II", and I've proposed category renames appropriately. Your feedback is most appreciated. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:58, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

2023 Auckland floods
An article has been started for the ongoing for flood event: 2023 Auckland floods if anyone has a chance to add more to improve it. ShakyIsles (talk) 18:50, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Update - Wellington WikiCon 11 & 12 March 2023
The programme to the Wellington WikiCon 2023 has now been published: Wikimedia User Group of Aotearoa New Zealand/Wellington WikiCon 2023 Pakoire (talk) 05:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 1 February 2023 - "Health New Zealand" to "Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand"
I have a move request in at Health New Zealand. Please contribute to the discussion on the talk page. Quilt Phase (talk) 05:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Evermore (band)
Evermore (band) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:40, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

RfC
Could we get some more eyes on this RfC. NickCT (talk) 13:55, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Murphy and Lawrence Filmmaking Families
I've been correcting a lot of messed up, common name, Murphy's on IMDB in the last day or two, moving credits from one incorrect Murphy to another correct Murphy (some will be pending for the next few days, as some corrections like profile merges are taking slightly longer than normal, going over their estimated processing date by a day or two), among other things to make it easier to find the British Murphy's I will no doubt be looking for again in future.

While updating those messed up Murphy profile's, I've noticed that a lot of the New Zealand ones are clearly related, as there seems to be around 5 Murphy's on each Geoff Murphy production.

Geoff Murphy is:
 * The brother-in-law of Bruno Lawrence.
 * The father of Paul Murphy, Matt Murphy, Linus Murphy, Miles Murphy and Robin Murphy.


 * Kerry Robins is an uncle (yes uncle, not aunt) of Geoff's 5 kids (I'm not sure how yet).
 * Pat Robins aka Pat Murphy is the mother of Kerry.
 * Ella Coco Murphy is one of Paul's kids.
 * Val Murphy is an unknown relative of the Murphy's.

Bruno Lawrence is:
 * The father of Thad Lawrence, Melissa Lawrence and Veronique Lawrence.
 * The husband of Veronica Lawrence.

Practically every family member I've noticed have credits missing, or need some of their credits (mainly their early credits) tweaking slightly, as they haven't added themselves exactly the same as they're listed on screen, so sometimes it can look more important than they are. Simple things like words being in the wrong order can make someone's role look more important, ie assistant director vs director's assistant.

Yet Geoff and Bruno's articles don't mention these filmmaking relatives or the fact that they're related to each other, never mind the success they've had themselves away from their father and uncles, at least one of which (Paul) easily qualifies for his own article, however I won't be creating it.

I will be adding a lot of useful future references to their IMDB profiles however, just in case someone does decide to create a Wikipedia article for Paul, and/or the entire Murphy/Lawrence filmmaking family. Danstarr69 (talk) 07:55, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Travel and scholarship available for the Wellington WikiCon 11 & 12 march
There are some travel and scholarship available for the Wellington WikiCon 11 & 12 March if you are thinking of coming but $ are a barrier or if you know of others. Open to all levels of experience with one or two day options. Please enquire: lisamauleinfo@gmail.com

Link to conference Wiki page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Group_of_Aotearoa_New_Zealand/Wellington_WikiCon_2023 Link to registration: https://wellington-wikicon-2023.lilregie.com/booking/attendees/new Pakoire (talk) 02:11, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Aotearoa New Zealand Online Wiki Meetup Sunday 5th March
There is an Aotearoa New Zealand online Wiki meetup happening from noon on Sunday the 5th of March. See the agenda for the link to attend and proposed discussion topics. Everyone is very welcome to attend. Ambrosia10 (talk) 00:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Warner Bros. Discovery New Zealand
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Warner Bros. Discovery New Zealand that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. From Bassie f (his talk page) 21:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

WP:CIII "task force"
As this Noticeboard is listed as considering the B-Grade article Charles III as Top Importance, dropping by to notify you of an attempt to organise some sort of effort to improve it at least one quality notch. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 04:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Use of "the" with topics that start with "Te" or "Ngā"
What's our general approach to the use of definite articles for names or terms which themselves start with a te reo definite article (Te Papa, Ngā Taonga, Te Kakahu skink and so on). My gut is that we shouldn't be using them owing to the double up, but that can lead to some sentences which don't feel grammatically correct ("Te Kakahu skink is a...") - even though the double up is probably less grammatically correct overall. Turnagra (talk) 03:47, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Turnagra: I don't know if this is necessarily the right answer, but I'd probably be looking at how reliable sources treat the word. RNZ and DOC both seem to use 'the Te Kakahu', for instance. It probably isn't so much an issue with proper nouns because it's more natural to use just the name ("Te Papa" rather than "the Te Papa museum"). Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 19:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The issue must arise for terms from other languages too, e.g. French, Italian, Spanish. Is there a general approach for them? Nurg (talk) 03:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

RFC being held about general & party elections
An RFC about intros to general & party elections, is being held. GoodDay (talk) 16:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Auckland Editors Online Meetup: Saturday, 18 March
Calling all Auckland-based editors! We will be meeting online this Saturday 18th March, from 2pm to 4pm. More details available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Auckland_18. Dactylantha (talk) 21:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Help with Wikidata SOUNZ Contributor ID property
Hi folks, if there are any Wikidata experts who know how to change type constraints on properties, I noted a problem on the talk page of SOUNZ Contributor ID P9136, your help would be much appreciated :) Jon (talk) 21:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Sources for images / historical info from WikiCon
Here is the list of great places to search for images + sources for pages that came up at WikiCon Wellington last weekend, especially for information on local areas:

Information

 * Papers Past, an archive of newspapers from the 19th century up until the 1970s (they're always adding more!). Also check out their magazines and journals section, which has some fascinating publications like Rip It Up, Forest and Bird, New Zealand Graphic, and Mana, the first multi-language Pasifika newspaper.
 * Heritage NZ. They've recently updated their website so it's a little harder to navigate, but for almost everything on their register, they have a wonderfully researched
 * Your local library. They'll have wonderful archives of local history books, or might be able to order them in from a different regional library. A lot of the books were published in 1989 (when a lot of boroughs and cities were merged in local govt reforms), so these can sometimes be a little flawed (not mentioning anything pre-1900, discussing any minority groups, or straight up just not covering anything from the last 30 years), but there's a goldmine of content locked up in these. Also, don't forget about the librarians themselves - amazing people with deep knowledge, local contacts and research skills. Say hi to them!

Photography

 * Digital NZ. You can search for keywords and time (e.g. commercially usable images of Porirua from 1900 to 1909). One difficulty with Digital NZ is that images for WikiCommons should ideally follow both US copyright law and NZ. For the US, everything published 1927 or earlier is currently okay (or if it has a CC-BY or CC-BY-SA license), and in NZ, everything that has been published 50 years after the death of an individual. Be careful with anything that might need cultural permissions to be uploaded (i.e. indigenous cultural works) - if in doubt, don't upload it and ask around.
 * Flickr Creative Commons, specifically the CC BY 2.0, CC BY-SA 2.0, CC0 and Public Domain categories. The best part about Flickr is that there's a button to directly upload content from Flickr, and a bot will check that the licensing is good-to-go.
 * iNaturalist. You can search for content in specific areas and filter by three licenses that are acceptable for Wiki Commons (CC0, CC-BY and CC-BY-SA). iNaturalist is meant to be used to identify species, but sometimes people add beautiful contextual photos of where they found the species (e.g. I found a photo for the Swanson Stream in an observation Jacqui Geux made of mallards having a nice day in the water). This is also super useful if you want to add colour to articles about natural areas, by showing what species live in a park/reserve (e.g. I added a cute little endemic crab to the Puhinui Reserve article).
 * WikiShootMe. This is a really lovely tool that identifies Wikidata items that need photos in your area (so you can get out and take photos!). Note the Flickr button on the right-hand drop-down menu: this shows the locations of properly licenced Flickr photos. Very useful for people who might have taken some great shots, but had no idea where they were. One issue WikiShootMe has is the Swedish/Cebuano Wikidata locality issue, where places were added en-masse but with the wrong geo-coordinates (so if you're looking at a bay, stream or headland, it might have it in completely wrong place).

There are many more useful sources! If you know of any, please mention them. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Regarding the Flickr upload button, I understand it's not available to users by default. Not sure how to check that but maybe somebody who is newish to Commons could comment here what they see when they open the UploadWizard.  Schwede 66  22:16, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh really? I had no idea! Here's a link to the tool if it's not standard. --Prosperosity (talk) 02:05, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not strictly a source in its own right, but HTGS alerted me to Openverse, which allows you to search for images with specific creative commons licences. I've found it incredibly helpful in tracking down images for articles, though I've been caught out a couple times by sources having the wrong sort of CC licence so make sure you filter by the ones wikimedia is okay with! Turnagra (talk) 08:23, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting! It seems to be mostly picking up on Flickr and Wiki Commons - are there any other major sources its pulling its information from? Prosperosity (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

National monuments
Just in case you didn't know, we have national monuments. There isn't a good document anywhere that explains what this is; the best I could find is just one sentence: "We also care for various national monuments erected by the New Zealand government." And I figured out earlier today that the Abel Tasman Monument used to be on that list and by looking at the Wayback Machine, I saw that it was removed from the list in 2020. So I rang the Ministry for Culture and Heritage to find out the backstory. Long story short:
 * Abel Tasman Monument is still a national monument but was removed in error from their list when ownership got transferred to DOC in 2020; they'll fix
 * They have it on their work programme to write a page what national monuments are

I see a list article and a new category coming up.  Schwede 66  01:54, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I've set up the Commons category and populated it with everything that I could find. A surprisingly large number of national monuments appear to be missing from Commons, probably reflecting that this class of monument is so poorly documented.  Schwede 66  18:48, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Definitely looks like an interesting topic and worth expanding! You're right though in that it seems difficult to find any information on them whatsoever, and I can't find any legislative grounding for them either in the same way that there is for other similar concepts. Will do some more digging but we might need MCH to help. Based on that list, would we include the overseas examples or just the NZ-based ones?
 * On that note, though, there are also the National reserves which quite often get forgotten about too. Turnagra (talk) 19:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * To me, the mix of domestic and overseas monuments is the defining feature of the national monuments. Hence, they need to all be covered. MCH will write something no doubt; it'll be a case of having patience. is good friends with the person who is in charge and if we think we've waited too long, we could ask Einebillion to give her a wee nudge.  Schwede  66  23:17, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Would be happy to nudge if needed. But knowing the person I don't think you'll need it. Super efficent is their way of living. :-) Einebillion (talk) 02:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Auckland online meeting: 18 March at 2PM
Hi all, we have our next Auckland online meeting on Saturday 18 March (tomorrow!) at 2-4PM. Come say hi (even if you're not physically located in Auckland!) --Prosperosity (talk) 22:22, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Wellington Wiki Physical Meetup - Saturday 18th March
Wellington Wiki Meetup is happening Saturday 18th of March at 10am at He Matapihi Molesworth Library at National Library, corner Molesworth and Aitken Streets, Wellington for more info see the agenda. Hope to see you there. Ambrosia10 (talk) 05:18, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Too-detailed COVID-19 info on pages
Recently I've noticed that a lot of pages have very detailed COVID-19 sections, such as Marist College and Papatoetoe High School. I feel like now these are WP:UNDUE (especially for Papatoetoe - established in 1956 and then covid), and I'd like to significantly trim these sections. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? --Prosperosity (talk) 21:48, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree that the coverage of COVID in Marist College, Auckland and Papatoetoe High School needs trimming. In ten years time, the involvement of these schools in community clusters of COVID in 2020 will have only minor interest for readers. The topic of COVID clusters adds little to the long-term usefulness of these articles. I suggest retaining no more than one or two sentences in each, and no sub-heading. Marshelec (talk) 01:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, in that case I'll go ahead with these two, and trim any others I come across. --Prosperosity (talk) 04:13, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I wonder whether this goes also for the BLM info on the Marist College page, which is also clearly important, but perhaps goes into excessive detail? Furius (talk) 17:22, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

FAR for New Zealand national rugby union team
I have nominated New Zealand national rugby union team for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 02:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

New digital archive
There's a new digital archive at https://tapuaka.wgtn.ac.nz/, launched this morning. Not yet in DigitalNZ but should be there eventually. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:24, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Stuart. I've had a quick poke around but couldn't find anything that was licensed suitable for use on Commons. Is some of the material freely licensed?  Schwede 66  20:24, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it doesn't look like it can be used as per this page "Unless otherwise indicated, the material available on this website is protected by copyright owned by the University or its related entities."— NZFC  (talk) (cont)  22:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * It doesn't have to be freely licensed to be a useful resource we can use as references.- gadfium 23:45, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Aotearoa New Zealand Online Meetup Sunday 2 April
Just a reminder. The Aotearoa New Zealand Wiki meetup is being held today, Sunday 2nd of April, virtually, at noon NZST. See this link for more details. Ambrosia10 (talk) 21:42, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Rugby union
Anyone interested in rugby union? I've posted a question at Talk:List of New Zealand national rugby union players that could do with some input.  Schwede 66  01:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a class parameter to WikiProject banner shell, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to WikiProject banner shell, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass WPBannerMeta a new custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Should Te Wao Nui have its own article?
There's only brief mention of Te Wao Nui (Wellington Children's Hospital) in the Mark Dunajtschik and Wellington Hospital articles; do we think it deserves its own article? And for that matter, the building is called the "Mark Dunajtschik and Dorothy Spotswood Building", so surely Dorothy Spotswood should have an article as well? — Jon (talk) 22:52, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I think Te Wao Nui could be independently notable and may warrant its own article. However, my guess is that over time, there may not be many new sources that can be used to add content to an article focussed on just the Wellington Children's Hospital, and it might not get a large readership. How relevant will an article on just the children's hospital be in 10 years time ? However, I note that the main Wellington Hospital article is rather brief for such a major facility with a long history. If there is going to be work done on articles related to the regional hospital, my view is to prioritise improvements to the main article. I will have a look for sources..Marshelec (talk) 23:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Good thoughts; in that case, let's make Te Wao Nui a redirect to the section in the main hospital page for now — Jon (talk) 23:54, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It might be a good idea to have a disambig page or a hatnote, since Te Wao Nui is also a name for the Waitākere Ranges. --Prosperosity (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * From a hospital administration perspective Te Wao Nui is considered to be a part of Wellington Hospital. A reasonable model for the wider article would be Middlemore Hospital, which includes a section for Kidz First Children's Hospital. I would prefer the Starship Hospital article to be a section of Auckland City Hospital, but formally proposing that would bring calumny upon my head. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that it should stay as part of Wellington Hospital. The section may be expanded in the future as there may be sources that discuss the architecture and construction of the building rather than the funding and opening. I am not sure there are enough sources yet on Dorothy Spotswood but that may change.--Gertrude206 (talk) 23:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Someone wants to move Marineland of New Zealand
If you have an opinion about whether Marineland of New Zealand should be moved to Marineland (New Zealand) like it's part of some shadowy international cetacean abuse cartel, please voice it here: Talk:Marineland of Canada — Jon (talk) 06:22, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

"Although some people objected to giving their religion..."
I'm an Australian who has recently returned from a delightful two weeks touring your South Island. I made extensive use of Wikipedia articles to tell me about places I was visiting. I like the consistent way the articles on places in NZ tend to be structured, particularly for the Demographics sections, and plan to encourage a similar approach for Australian articles.

However, the wording in the title of this section, which is common to many NZ articles, jarred a little with me. Obviously some people choose not to answer questions about religion, but most don't actually openly object to doing so. They just don't answer. We cannot know why they don't answer.

I would humbly suggest a change to that wording to "Although some people chose not to give their religion..." HiLo48 (talk) 03:33, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The boilerplate has been changed to "Although some people chose not to answer the census's question about religious affiliation...". I am working my way through the articles updating them. Probably I will not complete this before the 2023 census results are published, but at that point I will open a discussion on changes to the demographics presentation, and continue updating using the 2023 data. My current thinking is that the 2023 wording will state the percentage not answering rather than just saying "some".- gadfium 04:10, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent. You clearly beat me to it. Thanks. HiLo48 (talk) 04:30, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The terminology is presumably based on the way the census religion question had historically been asked. "Object to state" was a separate option which could be selected by those who refused to answer such a question. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/FS18870602.2.19 and https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19630725.2.227 give some background. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikishootme requested areas
Could I check if anyone has requests for areas that should be cleaned up in Wikidata, for anyone using WikiShootMe? I've almost finished Auckland, and I'd be happy to fix up some areas (e.g. Wellington City) if anyone's actively using on planning on using WikiShootMe. --Prosperosity (talk) 04:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I've only just learned about it from your post! If I understand it right, it's a tool that shows you where things which need photos are, right? If so, I'd love it if you could look at Wellington or Christchurch, it seems like a great tool and I've been trying to figure out a way to achieve exactly what this seems to be doing, so I'm glad it already exists! Turnagra (talk) 09:10, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's right! There are a few downsides at the moment (you can't manually remove something without adding a photo, meaning sometimes you get a lot of sports events, famous crimes or buildings that don't exist anymore), but it's an amazing tool. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:00, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's awesome, it definitely seems useful! I'll try and help out where I can, I've already been doing a bit and marrying up some images. One thing it's highlighted for me already is the number of places where we've got joint articles for geographic features and suburbs / towns (eg. Lyall Bay) - is this something which we should have a separate kōrero about at some point on how to handle these in general or is there already a view on it? Turnagra (talk) 10:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Amazing! I'll get started on central Wellington. The NZ Gazetteer has suburbs and features listed differently, even if the suburb is named after the feature (meaning merging them brings up a whole bunch of errors). I think it's probably best to keep them separate on Wikidata, even if the topic would be merged on Wikipedia - I've got all sorts of problems in Auckland because suburbs named after mountains (e.g. Mt Albert) used to have single articles! --Prosperosity (talk) 20:14, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm meaning more in terms of linking the wikidata to the page or commons category - I can't link the Lyall Bay category or page to the Bay wikidata entry because they're both linked to the suburb wikidata. I've been thinking that some of them should be split for a while now (Mt Vic especially) - maybe this could come up the list a bit to help alleviate it? Turnagra (talk) 20:24, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * How's this? commons:Category:Lyall Bay (suburb) and commons:Category:Lyall Bay (waterform) separated out, with the bay linked to the Wikidata item. --Prosperosity (talk) 23:37, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That works in terms of commons, but we'd still need to split the article to have proper links to here which was more what I was getting at. It's def a good start though! Turnagra (talk) 05:19, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've split the Mount Vic article in two, but I'm not sure if there's enough content for a separate Lyall Bay bay article yet! --Prosperosity (talk) 06:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done! I've processed the Christchurch area between the Waimakariri River and the Lyttelton Harbour - all geocoordinates should point to the correct places, and all Wikidata items point to unique things now (there were four different items for the Heathcote River!) --Prosperosity (talk) 01:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm consistently amazed with your speed, great work! Will try and head out to take some photos and fill in some of the blanks when I get a chance.
 * The duplicates do remind me of some of the issues we came across in the last West Coast drive, lots of bot-generated duplicate pages with a lot of errors. Hopefully this will help start to clean those up. Turnagra (talk) 09:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I use WikiShootMe a fair bit in Wellington. What kind of tidying are you doing or needs doing? Quilt Phase (talk) 11:03, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've been taking misplaced locations and putting them in the right places, like bays and rivers that have gone for a bit of a wander. If you have a look at Auckland (everywhere except Great Barrier Island - still to do), you'll see that all the geographical locations are where they should be, which isn't the case for the rest of NZ. --Prosperosity (talk) 21:00, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've now finished quality checking Wellington, Porirua, Lower Hutt and Upper Hutt - everything with a Wikidata item should now point to the right location, and there should only be one item per feature (no more bays on land, no more multiple items for the same river). --Prosperosity (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Quilt Phase (talk) 07:41, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I did speak about the New Zealand duplicates and coordinates issues at the Wellington WikiCon last month but unfortunately our sessions were on at the same time! I have also proposed a Wikimania session on this, and am working on a more automated way to clean up the incorrect coordinates and duplicates in Wikidata and Cebuano Wikipedia. Thanks for working on these though, I have also been doing a lot of coordinate fixing over the last 4–5 years but probably not as systematically by region as you have (although I did do a bulk West Coast coordinates cleanup so I can do it in bulk if necessary)! My only suggestion is that six decimal places seems a bit excessive (see XKCD), I know it's in the LINZ spreadsheet to that level but three decimal places should be more than sufficient precision (as displayed on the NZ Gazetteer) and I can see in my watch list some replacing of 3 decimal LINZ coordinates with six decimal places. --Canley (talk) 04:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * How are you progressing with this @Canley? My understanding is wikidata created items from Cebaunao Wikipedia. Cebuano Wikipedia mass created bot articles from Geonames. The name were bulk imported at some point(s) into geonames from linz or stats nz data. You can look at a map in geonames and see it has gridified all the items and moved items away from the actual location. Streams and rivers are paticularly badly effected as geonames seem to have pulled names from the topomaps so streams streching across maps have two+ entries see example . Peaks are also duplicated, one entry as a hill, and one as a mountain, and these have incorrect elevations as geonames calculated elevation at gridified coordinates.
 * I have adhoc fixed hundreds of these, even going into geonames and deleting duplicates and merging pages in Cubano Wiki. If there was some process being worked on to speed it up i'd be very interested. ShakyIsles (talk) 21:13, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I know the six decimal places is a bit excessive, but it means fewer steps for me (just copy/paste from LINZ) and sometimes it genuinely is necessary when multiple features have been given the same 2/3 decimal values (they stack in WikiShootMe as angry red dots in a grid). --Prosperosity (talk) 00:49, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * One other question this has prompted in my mind: there seem to be an awful lot of motels and other accommodation providers on wikidata - I'm assuming that wikidata has more lax notability requirements, but given the lack of other smaller businesses on there I'm wondering whether this is justified as well? Turnagra (talk) 19:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting one - I think the person who decided to add hotel data en masse was thinking more along the lines of New York-style hotels, big important buildings. I don't have too much of an issue with it since these are genuine places (and sometimes are helpful for illustrating suburb pages, or documenting architecture. I'm also mindful that if we delete them all, there's not a lot stopping someone else in the future adding them again. --Prosperosity (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Women in Architecture themed edit-a-thon 20 May 2023
Architecture + Women NZ, Auckland Museum and keen NZ Wikipedians are teaming up to do a national Wikipedia editing event. This will promote the contributions of women to the built environment of Aotearoa. The Women in Architecture Edit-a-thon will take place on Saturday 20 May 2023 also supported by funding from Wikimedia Aotearoa New Zealand.

The event is inspired by the new book Making Space. There are currently only nine women listed in the “New Zealand women architects” section, while there are over 500 women named in Making Space.

The events on the 20 May include in-person in Tāmaki Auckland, in-person in Ōtepoti Dunedin and nationally on-line.

In Auckland - Architecture + Women NZ is running a two part event. The first part entails a walking tour of significant buildings, designed by women, to collect photos to improve existing and future pages. The second part will be an edit-a-thon, hosted by Auckland Museum starting at 1pm. There will be training for new editors, resources and creating and improving articles. Meetup/Auckland 20

I am hosting an online edit-a-thon for existing editors to share resources and build community. People register to get the video conference link which can be joined at any time between 10am - 4pm. https://women-in-architecture-edit-a-thon-online.lilregie.com/booking/attendees/new

In Dunedin a small group are going to work collectively and hunt out regional notable women architects and their work.

All contributing Wikipedians editing on the day will compete for prizes in the following categories:


 * Most pictures uploaded
 * Most stubs created
 * Best quality article using (ORES)
 * Most references uploaded
 * Best obscure fact included
 * Most words / edits
 * Best quality Wikidata item (ORES)
 * Longest rabbit hole Wikidata list of linked items
 * Most related articles expanded
 * Most new articles that have links to New Zealand women architects

Full project New Zealand Women in Architecture WikiProject

So please if you can spare a little time to join to efforts add yourself to a project page. Get in touch if you want to join a community online or in-person and there are some funds for resources if you need Making Space shipped to you!

Pakoire Pakoire (talk) 05:57, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

RfC at Charles III
Hello--There's an open RfC Talk:Charles III that welcomes input. ₪  MIESIANIACAL  17:51, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The Post revamp
Today, Stuff Limited has revamped the Dominion Post as The Post. I have moved the article to The Post (New Zealand newspaper) since there several newspapers with the name Post. There will be hundreds of redirects to fix since Dominion Post has been cited as a source in numerous New Zealand-related articles. I have fixed the redirects for Template:NZ newspaper and Template:Stuff. Was wondering if we could use a bot to fix the other hundreds of redirects? Any advice. Andykatib (talk) 04:07, 29 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Well, it doesn't need fixing as redirects are fine. It can be fixed as part of regular editing if you wish. Mass-changes like this can be done by the AutoWikiBrowser but using AWB just for fixing this redirect would be in breach of rule number 4: Do not make insignificant or inconsequential edits. If you were to do other AWB edits (consequential ones) and you fixed a redirect as part of that edit, that would be fine.  Schwede 66  04:29, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for your advice. Will be happy to fix redirects over the year. Happy to welcome volunteers as well. Andykatib (talk) 04:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I added a quick note about the renaming to The Dominion (Wellington), which could probably do with a decent rewrite and expansion - it seems a bit odd that 95 years' worth of the Dominion takes up less article space than 20 years' worth of the DomPost. Daveosaurus (talk) 05:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)