Wikipedia:Notice board for topics related to the Netherlands/archives/archiveMay2011

This is an archive of the Dutch Wikipedian's notice board.

zwarte piet
First question is the discussion about Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands. See blackface. Is this an exaggeration or not? See talk:blackface Contributor seems strongly and emotionally opposed to Zwarte Piet for very understandable reasons. So even if this portrayal in the article is exaggerated then it will probably take a lot of effort to change it. Andries 21:44, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Zwarte Piet is totally different than blackface. See Sinterklaas for more information about the Dutch holiday tradition.

nuclear power phase-out
I would appreciate some help to extend the part about the Netherlands in the new article on the nuclear power phase-out. I have the politics of several other countries covered, but the Netherlands are still missing. Anybody interested? BTW, I also need reviews. Please post here. --Ben T/C 09:47, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

current event
Dutch response to Hurricane Katrina could be expanded, and possibly have a better photo. --Tsaddik Dervish 10:11, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Assorted Dutch politics questions
Copied from here:

9. What's the latest news on the status reform of 🇦🇼 and the ? I thought there was supposed to be a decision by mid-2005? HansM (talk) 22:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No status reform is planned for 🇦🇼.  is scheduled to be disbanded on 10/10/2010.  Cura&ccedil;ao and Sint Maarten will get the same status as Aruba; Bonaire, Saba and St. Eustatius will become "special" municipalities within 🇳🇱.

Thanks for any information you might be able to contribute. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 09:16, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Albatros (ship)
Albatros (ship) talks about Rijkswerf, Amsterdam. I found it odd that Rijkswerf is missing in WP. Is it another name for a place? -- Perfecto 02:44, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rijkswerf is Dutch for state shipyard. Dinsdagskind 17:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Naming convention for Dutchmen on Wikipedia
Good day, ladies and gentlemen. You may be interested to know that I have put up a couple of questions regarding the naming and sorting convention of Dutchment whose family name has the word "Van" at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people). Feel free to contribute there, with a view to improve the current naming conventions. --Pkchan 17:07, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Gemeentenamen/Municipalities
Dag mensen, nl:Gebruiker:Quichot heeft onlangs alle Nederlandse gemeentenamen van een uitspraak voorzien, ze staan bij de Nederlandse artikelen (op dit moment alleen nog de provincies Groningen, Friesland, Flevoland, Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland, Utrecht en Zeeland, einde deze week waarschijnlijk allemaal) net na de gemeentenaam vermeld. Ik ben bezig ze op Commons in een categorie te proppen, daarover meer als het gelukt is. Groet, NielsF Talk to me.. 05:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ze staan in elk geval nu op Commons:Pronunciation of Dutch municipality names in een overzichtelijke lijst per provincie. Groet, NielsF Talk to me.. 16:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi all, nl:Gebruiker:Quichot has recently made sound recordings of the pronunciation of all current Dutch municipalities (470 in total), which can be found on Commons: Commons:Pronunciation of Dutch municipality names. NielsF Talk to me.. 00:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Maps of Dutch cities/villages


Ik kan hulp gebruiken bij het maken van plattegrondjes van Nederlandse plaatjes. Cartografische kundigheid of speciale software is niet nodig! Zie nl:Gebruiker:Eugene van der Pijll/Kaartjes. -- Eugene van der Pijll 13:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I can use some help in creating maps. See nl:Gebruiker:Eugene van der Pijll/Kaartjes. (instructions are only in Dutch). -- Eugene van der Pijll 13:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Music of the Netherlands
Some time ago I added a comment to the discussion page of this article, which unfortunately hasn't had any effect. I hope someone reading this notice board is in a position to do something about the sorry state of this article, or knows others who can contribute. Lambiam Talk 11:41, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Kartini
I recently translated the above Indonesian article into English. I really think that with a bit of work on it, it would make a great English featured article, and I wanted to see if anyone was interested in helping improve it to bring it up to FA status.

To summarise, it's about an Indonesian woman who has a very significant place in the pantheon of Indonesian hero[ines]. Kartini wrote letters in Dutch to friends (whom she never met) which profoundly changed the way the Dutch establishment viewed their Dutch East Indian possessions and its people. She was a women with very strong opinions on the way women were treated in her own culture, on the injustices of colonialism, on the hypocrises of religion. She was inspired by the work of early Dutch feminists and influential writers such as Multatuli, Louis Couperus, Frederik van Eeden, Augusta de Witt, the Romantic-Feminist author Mrs Goekoop de-Jong Van Beek and Berta von Suttner

Ironically, despite the being the victim of inequalities caused by colonialism, her sex and her culture, she was uniquely priviledged - she was allowed to attend school until the age of 12, she had a sympathetic father who allowed her to write to her friends in the Netherlands, and later a sympathetic husband who allowed her to set up a school to educate Indonesian women. She died in childbirth at the age of 25.

Would there be any interest in collaborating on this article to try and bring it up to FA status? There are so many thought-provoking strands that could come out of it that I think it is a worthy project. I am also trying to build up support on the WikiProject Countering systemic bias open tasks board.--Sepa 20:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Dutch people
I'd appreciate some input on the Dutch people article. Should we use an image in the infobox which includes portraits of Spinoza and Anne Frank? Please voice your opinion on Talk:Dutch people. Thanks. Junes 11:12, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Dutch military history task force
 IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN DUTCH MILITARY HISTORY, AND THINK YOU CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION, THEN JOIN OR VISIT THE DUTCH MILITARY HISTORY TASK FORCE.

Help with translation
I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help, then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Greek. Thanks, --Soman 12:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure he meant Dutch. The correct link is User:Soman/Lang-Help-nl Valentinian (talk) 14:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm sorry for that. Well, I've pasted a similar appeal on several talk pages and did not edit properly. --Soman 14:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Alphabetic ordering of "Van" and "De" names
I've often noticed names like "Van den Berge" being ordered under 'B'. I'm not sure why people want to do that, and I'm not sure where to take this, if there's a guideline or anything. The thing is, it does not make sense at all. If you put Van den Berge under 'B', where do you put Vandenberge - an equally common name afaik (I'm Flemish)? Why would Van Aelst be under A and Vanaelst under V? It makes it much so more difficult to find someone, because even here in Belgium we're often uncertain whether a name is written in one piece. Which is why our phonebooks invariably list these people under V. Btw. My name is "De Somere" and many people who know my name would not be certain if it is "Desomer", "Desomere", "De Somer" or "De Somere". But they would all know where to look in a phonebook. I would like to some feedback, if we have a consensus I will feel better about changing all those annotations. Piet 20:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Giving this is the English wikipedia I think the Belgian filing system fitts better here than the Dutch one. I believe Dutch name treats this problem as well.
 * Rex 21:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * FWIW, the reason that prefixes are ignored in the Netherlands, is that surnames are never written in one piece. The names Vandenberge and Vanaelst simply do not exist in Dutch Dutch Hollans (except for Belgian immigrants). For example, the family name database at the Meertens institute (see Dutch name for link) lists 4 Vandenberghe's, 17 Vandenbergh's, 17 Vandebergh's, 108Vandeberg's (only in Limburg, which is practically Belgium anyway :) and 37678 Van de(n/r) Berg's, 2819 Van de(n/r) Bergh's, 1651 Van de(n/r) Berge's, and 340 Van den Berghe's. So for the Netherlands, ignoring the prefix is more practical.
 * For more discussion on the ordering of surnames in the English wikipedia: see Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(people) and Categorization_of_people. Eugène van der Pijll 21:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Please (!) refrain from using "Dutch Dutch" and "Belgian Dutch" it breaks my heart ;-) Rex 21:42, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, it was not me who decided to include that double Dutch spoken south of the Moerdijk in our beautiful language... ;-) Eugène van der Pijll 21:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, better stay out of the Dutch/Flemish/Belgian discussion... Thanks for the links, I'll refer whoever complains to those pages. Piet 22:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned Dutch Dutch and Double Dutch (Dutch Dutch) are the same thing, no matter below which industrieterrein they might be situated. ;-) Rex 22:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, in this case "Dutch Dutch" and "Belgian Dutch" don't refer to language variants, but to differences in language usage, which is there because of the different administrative and legal systems, different sensitivities surrounding the use of French loanwords and probably some other reasons; the difference in spelling and alphabetizing surnames is just one aspect of this. They are useful shorthands for "Dutch as used in the Netherlands/Belgium". Nevertheless, I understand your sensitivity and support the idea behind what you're saying. I don't think calling what I happen to speak Hollands improves matters, though. We're still speaking about different usage within Standard Dutch, while Hollands proper is a dialect. – gpvos (talk) 22:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Native name/long name of the Netherlands
Shouldn't the infobox here say "Nederland/The Netherlands" and not "Koninkrijk der Nederlanden/Kingdom of the Netherlands"? I'm just wondering because Netherlands (nl:Nederland) is not the same as the Kingdom of the Netherlands (nl:Koninkrijk der Nederlanden), it is only the European part. &mdash;MC 17:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You've got me confused here. It says Netherlands/Nederland, doesn't it? And yes that's what it should say. Niels F 22:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've changed it since I first posted this. No one has changed it back this time, but someone did before. Sorry about the confusion. &mdash;MC 23:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, "Nederland" (the Netherlands) is a term for the European part of the country only, while the "Koninkrijk der Nederlanden" (Kingdom of the Netherlands) is a federation with three "states" (called "landen"): Aruba, the Netherlands Antilles and the Netherlands. This will be changed, however, since the Netherlands Antilles will be partitioned: Curaçao and St.-Martin will become separate "landen", while the other islands of the Netherlands Antilles will get a closer relationship with the Netherlands proper. So, there is a distinction between the two terms. Ucucha 05:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Small correction: three islands of the Netherlands Antilles will establish closer ties to the Netherlands, not two: Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius. Curaçao and Sint Maarten will receive a status aparte, similar to Aruba. A  ecis  Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 22:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Royal Academy of Art (The Hague)
I need some help from locals to determine whether Bhaskar Hande, who is said to have attended "Royal Academy of Visual Arts" and "Free Academy of Visual Art", actually attended Royal Academy of Art (The Hague). See Talk:Bhaskar Hande. John Vandenberg 03:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Royal Academy of Visual Arts (Koninklijke Academie van Beeldende Kunsten) is indeed the Royal Academy of Art (The Hague). The Free Academy of Visual Art is the Vrije Academie voor Beeldende Kunsten. HTH. A  ecis Brievenbus 03:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have created a stub for Vrije Academie voor Beeldende Kunsten.  How does the Free Academy rate as an Art school?  I'll gladly take any rough pointers to sources (for each academy) and work them into the articles. John Vandenberg 22:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Archives

 * off topic Notice board for topics related to the Netherlands/archives/off-topic
 * Solved issues Jan. 2006 until ... Notice board for topics related to the Netherlands/solved_1

Dance in the Netherlands
I just started this article. Your contributions are much appreciated! Best regards, Brz7 11:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It is a good stub, but skating on ice has been a hype a year ago, and it's not so populair anymore.

Headline of the netherlands motorways are all wrong
I would be thankful, if the netherlands specialists could have a look here: Portal talk:Transport Thank you -- 84.132.101.93 10:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Winschoterdiep
Hi, can someone take a look at this article? It was created by sockpuppet who also posted lots of hoaxes, but I'm not sure in this case. Max S em 15:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This article is 100% accurate. I live near there :) A  ecis Brievenbus 19:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Netherlands

Anne Frank Tree photograph
At the present time, Wikipedia has no image related to the Anne Frank Tree which is to be cut down on November 21 2007. Wikipedians in the area are encouraged to take a free picture before it is cut down. Thank you. Puchiko (Talk-email) 13:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Dutch politics proposed
I have proposed the creation of the WikiProject Dutch politics. If you are interested in joining the WikiProject, you can express your interest at WikiProject Council/Proposals. A ecis Brievenbus 20:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Few words to translate
How should I translate: Eredoctoren van de Academie, Bekende professoren, Bekende studenten? Thanks! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Somewhere along the lines of "Honorary doctors, established professors, established students." It's a bit difficult to translate the word "bekende" correctly. It means "known", "famous, "notable", but in this case, established probably covers the meaning a bit better. A  ecis Brievenbus 23:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Instrument amplifier
In the Instrument amplifier article, there are two different interwiki links to the Dutch Wikipedia. I believe one is for "guitar amplifier" and the other is for "bass amplifier", but if the Dutch Wikipedia has a more general article it would be best to have the interwiki link point there instead. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A more general one would be nl:Versterker (elektronica), but this one is linked with Electronic amplifier here. I removed the incorrect interwiki's in the article now. They're just not valid. Davin (talk) 17:46, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Photograph request: KLM headquarters
Would someone convenient to Amstelveen mind going to the KLM headquarters and photographing the building? The KLM article needs a photograph of its world headquarters. Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 20:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Dutch knighthoods
A while back, somebody depopulated the Category:Dutch knights, removing baseball players Sidney Ponson, Calvin Maduro, and Gene Kingsale, all of whom have received the Order of Orange-Nassau, in the grade Knight. The edit summary said "A decoration is not a knighthood." Soon afterward, the Category:Dutch knights was deleted for being empty.

Can anyone clarify whether it is correct to refer to members of the Order of Orange-Nassau, in the grade Knight, as "Dutch knights"? Thanks. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The British term "Knighthood" refers to someone who belongs to the nobility, be it in the lowest grade. They are allowed to call themselves Sir or Lady so and So. The Dutch Order of Orange-Nassau is an Order of Knighthood. None of the members in the six grades is ennobled but a Knight may add "Knight in the Order of Orange-Nassau" to his or her name. There are no Dames in the Order. Just as in France everyone is a Knight or Chevalier.

It is not a mere decoration but a genuine Order of Knighthood or Ridderorde.

The problem is that the British system of nobility and Peerage is unique. A Dutch, Danish or French Knight is not a nobleman while a British Knight or Dame belongs to the British nobility.

There are a few Knights in the Netherlands with a heriditary knighthood. See [] for exemple

Translation help needed please
I'm currently working on a Dutch windmill article in my sandbox. In the mill is a poem by the mill's builder. As the mill was built in 1821 the poem is out of copyright by now, so I've quoted it in full. What I need help with is translating it into English. Is there any editor willing to assist with this? Mjroots (talk) 20:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a try. Ucucha 20:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's not modern Dutch, I can get the gist of parts of it but wouldn't be able to do it justice. Mjroots (talk) 20:49, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a translation. It probably sounds like gibberish in places; that may be because of my insufficient skills as a translator, but also because the original text isn't exactly clear either. Sipman was quite right. The text also seems to be corrupt in a few places (the " 'em " for example); is there a photo of the board somewhere to confirm the text? Ucucha 21:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Found another version here, with several textual differences (including an extra line). Ucucha 21:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I can translate one word you've not managed to. Vang = brake. In East Anglia the term was fang, with fangstaff for the brake lever. Mjroots (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering whether ",em" is "hem"? Mjroots (talk) 22:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It is "men" (="people in general", man in German) according to the link I posted, which makes sense in the context. Ucucha 22:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've used the poem from that link, so just the final lines need translating now. Mjroots (talk) 07:28, 21 January 2010 (UTC)