Wikipedia:Peer review/Šalata/archive1

Šalata

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I'm planning on turning it into a Good article. I'd like to know what could and should be done to expand the article and make it look better, nicer and more professional.

Thanks, Admiral Norton (talk) 21:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments - Yohhans (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC) - Just going through this based on prose and MoS issues. I'll try and determine if content is comprehensive where I can, but chances are I'll just be looking at the writing. :) Keep in mind that these are all suggestions. Take them with a grain of salt. Also, don't be afraid of how long the review is. I'm picky. It's nothing against you, I promise. :)

General comments
 * I would suggest making the History section be the first section, rather than Geography. However, this is just preference.

Lead Geography History Education Culture Sports Famous inhabitants Embassies References
 * It houses the ŠRC Šalata (Šalata Sport and Recreation Center) ... --> It houses the Šalata Sport and Recreation Center (ŠRC Šalata) ...
 * Why is the location of "the current center" buried in the link? Why not rewrite it as, "Being close to both the old city cores Gornji Grad and Kaptol and the current center, Donji Grad,...."? Preferably the entire sentence should be rewritten to, "the residents of Šalata are close to almost all major events outside the neighborhoods due to their proximity to both the old city cores of Gornji Grad and Kaptol, and the current center, Donji Grad."
 * Try not to start your sentences with "Being...". It makes the sentence feel weak. How about, "Šalata is praised for great views of the city because of its slightly higher altitude in relation to the rest of the city."
 * Due to all these factors, real estate in Šalata is very expensive and Šalata has become the home to many influential people from the political, musical and sports scene in Croatia.
 * I'm not sure a link to scene (community) is really necessary.
 * All done. Admiral Norton (talk) 11:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Being located on the slopes of Medvednica Mountain, mostly containing woods inhabited by wildlife and only a half an hour walk from the Ban Jelačić Square, Šalata was quickly urbanized in the early and mid-20th century following a rapid expansion of Zagreb. Long cumbersome sentence. I would suggest axing the first half of the sentence unless the source at the end of the paragraph says that it is because of Šalata's location in the Medvednica Mountains that it was urbanized. If that's not the case, then I'd say just turn the sentence into, "Šalata was quickly urbanized in the early to mid-20th century following a rapid expansion of Zagreb." If that is the case, then I would follow that sentence up with this one, "The urbanization can be explained by its prime location on the slopes of the Medvednica Mountain and its close proximity to the Ban Jelačić Square."
 * Nonetheless, the neighborhood retains a green image, housing the botanical garden "Fran Kušan" in Zagreb, owned by the Faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry of the University of Zagreb. - When you say, "green image", does that mean that the city is actually green in color, or that it is trying to be more environmentally friendly? Please rephrase to be less ambiguous. Also, change ... "Fran Kušan" in Zagreb, owned by the Faculty ... to "... Fran Kušan" in Zagreb which is owned by the Faculty ..."
 * 2000 plant species. --> 2,000 plant species
 * Šalata's connection to the rest of Zagreb via mass transit consists of four bus lines: - This reads awkwardly. How about, "Šalata's mass transit consists of four bus lines:"?
 * At that point 106 and 226 continue --> At this point 106 and 226 continue
 * The neighborhood is not connected to the citywide tram system, but its inhabitants have to either descend to Medveščak Road or Vlaška Street, or take the bus to the Kaptol near Ban Jelačić Square to reach the nearest tram lines. --> change "but" to "so". Also, are directions really necessary? Could we not just change this sentence to, "The neighborhood is not connected to the citywide tram system, so residents must take other forms of transportation to get to the tram."?
 * ... luxury apartment buildings three or four stories high, the first in Croatia to feature digital homes. --> "... luxury apartment buildings three to four stories high. They are the first in Croatia to feature digital homes." - Also, can we get a reference on this? Also, also, what exactly is a digital home?
 * a canyon, with their roofs seen from above --> '' which allows their roofs to be seen from nearby streets - Also, is "canyon" really the right word? Maybe, depression?
 * I really don't know a better word. A depression would fit a lake, but this is more like a pretty steep elongated river valley. Actually, a small stream used to flow down the valley before the Babonićeva Street was enlarged. The stream was mostly used for garbage and as a frog incubator, so I don't think it merits the inclusion, nor that I would be able to find a good source about it. Admiral Norton (talk) 11:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I guess in that case I can't much think of a better word either. It is just that, being an American, when I hear "canyon", my brain tends to flit to the grand variety and so I figured this would be the same with other readers. I was just hoping to avoid confusion and to provide a better depiction of the lay of the land. - Yohhans (talk) 13:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * at the expense of some possessions of the local church. - Does this mean that the local church was destroyed to make room for the apartments? If so, can this be reworded to reflect that?
 * The enlargement was planned for 30 years, but the City was unable to buy the church property until the mid-2000s. - Needs a reference
 * Mostly done. Admiral Norton (talk) 11:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Šalata was built in several axes, - took me forever to realize that this was in reference to a coordinate plane rather than the plural of axe. Even then it does not make much sense. I'd say either create a picture to illustrate this and change the sentence to "Šalata was built along several axes: Bijenička Road, Voćarska Road and Grškovićeva Street." or simply drop the sentence.
 * I just have to say, I really like the way you rephrased this sentence. It is much better now! - Yohhans (talk) 19:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The entire first paragraph in the History section is without references. This needs to be fixed.
 * As the city grew, the neighborhood expanded northward, creating an interesting street pattern garbled in the south, but consisting of straight north-south streets and random east-west connectors north of Grškovićeva Street. --> As the city grew, the neighborhood expanded northward. This created garbled street patterns in the south, but led to straight north-south streets and random east-west connectors north of Grškovićeva Street.
 * East of Voćarska and Bijenička Street the neighborhood is located on steep slopes and canyons, generating long, steep north-south streets connected by staircases. -- Does not contribute to this section at all. It should either be moved to "geography" or dropped completely. I suggest the latter. In fact... reading the rest of the paragraph, it seems to me that this entire paragraph should just be dropped. It does not contribute to the history of the neighborhood, or what little history it does provide, is restated in the next paragraph.
 * Šalata used to comprise a village --> Šalata used to be a village
 * Up until 1990 the definition was coded --> Up until 1990 the definition of a neighborhood was coded
 * Šalata is currently undergoing a real estate prices increase, due to the neighborhood being close to most city amenities. --> Real estate prices are currently increasing due to the neighborhood being close to most city amenities.
 * See also: Archdiocesan Classical Gymnasium - This is not needed as it has already been linked in the article.
 * As for tertiary education, Šalata hosts the Ruđer Bošković Institute and Faculties of Science (Departments of Mathematics and Physics), Medicine and Chemistry of the University of Zagreb. - I.... don't even know. Maybe, "As for tertiary education, Šalata hosts the Ruđer Bošković Institute of the University of Zagreb which includes the faculties of science, medicine and chemistry." - I hope that was the correct interpretation of that sentence
 * Move the botanical gardens picture to the Culture section and the Gymnasium to the Education section. Also, the caption for the Gymnasium photo should be "Archdiocesan Classical Gymnasium on Voćarska Road"
 * First paragraph needs citations, specifically the first and third sentences.
 * near the Medveščak Road intersection - I think this might be too much detail. Probably just me though (only reason I'm saying anything is because the phrase clutters up this sentence).
 * in the far northern part of Bijenička Road. --> on the far northern part of Bijenička Road.
 * in Zmajevac Street --> on Zmajevac Street
 * I always make this error since we have a "in"/"on" distinction for streets and avenues in Croatian, but it's always "on" for roads, ways, boulevards etc. Admiral Norton (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * such as the sculptor Vanja Radauš, who owned an atelier in Zmajevac Street, which has been converted into a art restauration company, or the painter Vasilije Jordan.
 * Šalata is widely known throughout Zagreb for its festivals, including Šalata Open Air Festival, VIP INmusic Festival and others, and the concerts on the ŠRC Šalata football stadium. - Couple things. 1.) Needs a citation. 2.) change "including Šalata Open Air Festival, VIP INmusic Festival and others, and the concerts on the ŠRC Šalata football stadium." to "including the Šalata Open Air Festival, VIP INmusic Festival, concerts at the ŠRC Šalata football stadium, and others."
 * These concerts are oftentimes held by world-famous bands - I don't think the bands themselves host the concerts, so change this to "These concerts often host world-famous bands"
 * The famous Papaya nightclub --> "The Papaya nightclub" - Try to avoid peacock words.
 * Source 15 mentions Hermann Bollé, but it does not say this was his most famous work. Nor does it say it earned him eternal fame. These statements need a citations. Also, try to avoid those peacock terms... I'm not sure anyone can claim eternal fame.
 * Curbed down. "Maginificent" is in the source, though. Admiral Norton (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * On the Mirogojska Road north of Mirogoj, the Krematorij is located. It is a smaller cemetery devoted for cremations. - What does this have to do with culture? Also, it should be, "It is a smaller cemetery devoted to cremations."
 * Done, I believe. Admiral Norton (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Šalata is known for ŠRC Šalata, the Sports and Recreational Center Šalata. ŠRC Šalata was built in the 1930s instead of expanding KBC Šalata. - Until you provide a source for the first sentence, change these two sentences to, "The Sports and Recreational Center Šalata (ŠRC Šalata) was built in the 1930s." (I omitted the KBC Šalata from the sentence as it is never mentioned again in the article.)
 * It hosts large public --> It contains large public
 * and an outdoor soccer stadium converted during the winter to use for ice hockey and ice skating. --> and an outdoor soccer stadium that converts to an ice rink in the winter.
 * The center is very attractive for both amateur and professional tennis players, having nine tennis courts, a normal-sized one and eight small courts --> "The center attracts both amateur and professional tennis players with its one regulation-sized tennis courts and eight smaller courts." -- Also, this needs a citation.
 * , most notable being ice hockey club Medveščak, basketball club KK Medveščak, swimming club PK Medveščak, handball club RK Medveščak, water polo club VK Medveščak and tennis club TK Medveščak. --> The most notable are the ice hockey, basketball, swimming, handball, water polo and tennis clubs.
 * NB I've refrained from saying this earlier because I felt it was warranted at the time, but this sentence just seems excessive. You are writing for an English audience. Using so many Croatian terms (or in this case, one term used multiple times) in a row is going to scare away your readers. Also, the the acronyms (at least I assume that's what they are) KK, PK, RK, need to be spelled out or just not used at all.
 * near its center and Grškovićeva Road --> near its center on Grškovićeva Road
 * Change Tito to Josip Broz Tito
 * Andrija Hebrang, an influential Croatian politician, --> need a source for "influential", or drop the word.
 * You might want to rethink the inclusion of some of the "notable" inhabitants. Some that you link to don't even have an article on Wikipedia.
 * Two residential villas on Grškovićeva Street were meant to become the residences of President Stipe Mesić and the Speaker of the Croatian Parliament, but they were abandoned in favor of the old locations. -- This kind of feels like grasping at straws. That is, it seems like it is included for inclusion's sake.
 * Due to its reputation, - The great thing about a reputation is that it can be backed up with... you guessed it! Sources! ;) Also, what kind of reputation? I assume you mean a good diplomatic one, but it would be better to say that explicitly.
 * Yugoslavia broke into Serbia and Montenegro - "broke into"? How about "invaded"
 * It should have said "broke up into", but "was divided into" conveys the meaning even better. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * located in the quiet Torbarova Street --> located on Torbarova Street
 * located on the intersection of --> located at the intersection of
 * It is the only embassy in Šalata under constant monitoring by security guards. - Needs citation
 * I live in Šalata, so it's OR. I was careful about writing only referenced things, but obviously not careful enough. fact for now, I'll delete if I don't find anything. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is Bulgarian ... --> The Bulgarian ...
 * Embassies are done. I'll also try and find refs for other embassies. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [10], [11], [13], [14], [19] - All lack publishers
 * [13] - What makes [mfyi.com] a reliable source?
 * [12], [13], [15] - You do not have to specify when a source is in English as it is assumed
 * [26] - Needs to state that the website is in Croatian
 * [29] - Definitely not in English; needs a last accessed; needs a publisher
 * Oops, I had linked to the Slovenian language version. Fixed now. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * While not required per se, is there any way we could get paper sources to complement the internet sources?
 * Also not required, but is it possible to get more English sources? I realize this will be difficult given the topic, but I just thought I'd ask.
 * Phew! That's the end of it. Hope this all helps. Again, I hope you don't take offense at my suggestions. I'm just looking to help. :)
 * Thanks, I'll have a look at this tomorrow. Seems like a lot of things to do :-) Admiral Norton (talk) 23:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

A few more comments - Yohhans (talk) 04:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC) - The article is looking much better! I think you'll have no problem getting this through GAN when you've finished cleaning up the prose.
 * owned by the F faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry of the University of Zagreb.
 * Since the southeastern part remains unconnected, the City of Zagreb administration has pointed out that Šalata is badly connected to the rest of the city, and plans to add more bus lines.[5] The neighborhood is not connected ... So many "connected"s!
 * four stories high, the first in Croatia --> four stories high, and is the first in Croatia
 * but the C city was unable to buy
 * Zmajevac Street or and painter Vasilije Jordan.
 * The Ukrainian embassy is located in

All done. I'm going to a reference hunt now. Admiral Norton (talk) 18:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)