Wikipedia:Peer review/2007 Pan American Games medal table/archive1

2007 Pan American Games medal table
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because… I want to re-nominate for FLC. This list need more detailed comments, to be improved.

Thanks,  C  anniba loki  18:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: The table looks good to me, but the prose and organization need more work to reach FA level. Here are suggestions for improvement.

Lead
 * I think the lead image would look better at 300px. Lead images are generally set to something larger than "thumb".
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the lead should be a summary of the whole article, you need to include at least a mention of the doping scandal and the changes in standings. Also, I think you need to make clear in the lead that the medal count is the final count, not the pre-scandal count.

Changes in medal standings
 * Rather than repeating "medal", which appears in the article title, I'd suggest "Changes in standings" for the first main section head.
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:MOS says in part, "Do not use lists if a passage reads easily using plain paragraphs." For this reason, I'd suggest removing the bullets in the "Changes in medal standings" section and using straight prose. To keep from creating tiny orphan paragraphs, I'd combine the lead sentence with the Brazilian swimmer material, and I'd combine the final three bulleted items to make a second paragraph.
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "After the games ended, doping scandals resulted in the stripping of medals from four athletes, thus affecting the medal standings." - This could be a better sentence if not passive. If PASO stripped the medals, the sentence could read, "After the games ended, the Pan American Sports Organization (PASO), responding to doping scandals, stripped medals from four athletes and changed the medal standings." If you adopt this form of the sentence, PASO does not have to be spelled out or linked on subsequent references.
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "and was stripped of his four medals. She had won gold medals... " - "her" rather than "his"? Ditto in "Gusmão also lost his gold medal to Semeco... "? Gusmão was a woman, not a man, right?
 * I don't know.--  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I Googled her name and came up with enough to believe the answer is woman. She's referred to as a nadadora in a Spanish-language news article here. And here are photos. I think you can safely change the male pronouns to "her". Finetooth (talk) 22:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it would be good to add a third paragraph to this section to make clear exactly how the scandal changed the scores. That is, you could say what the score for Brazil was in each gold, silver, or bronze category before the scandal and what it was after the scandal. Ditto for any other country involved in the scandal.

Medal table

References I hope these suggestions prove helpful. Finetooth (talk) 23:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "The ranking in this table is based on information provided by the PASO and is consistent with International Olympic Committee (IOC) convention in its published medal tables." - I'm not sure what this sentence means. What convention? Do you mean the table format? Or do you mean that the IOC agreed with the PASO rankings? Perhaps, since an explanation of table conventions follows in the subsequent sentences, you could just truncate this first sentence to say, "The ranking in this table is based on information provided by the PASO and is consistent with International Olympic Committee (IOC) conventions."
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the English translation in citation 5 say "PASO strips medals from four athletes" rather than "PASO stripped of medals from four athletes"?
 * --  C  anniba loki  21:58, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Good enough now? Felipe Menegaz 20:39, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Better. I read through it again and made quite a few minor proofing changes that I'm sure would have stalled things at FLC. I found so many little things that I'm assuming I missed some. One more sweep by a fresh pair of eyes would be a good idea. Also, if you can find a successful Featured List sports editor to take a look, that might be helpful too. Finetooth (talk) 23:54, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

 Prose. It features professional standards of writing. ? Lead. It has an engaging lead that introduces the subject and defines the scope and inclusion criteria. ✓ Comprehensiveness. ✓ (a) It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing at least all of the major items and, where practical, a complete set of items; where appropriate, it has annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about the items. ✓ (b) In length and/or topic, it meets all of the requirements for stand-alone lists; it is not a content fork, does not largely recreate material from another article, and could not reasonably be included as part of a related article. ✓  Structure. It is easy to navigate through and includes, where helpful, section headings and table sort facilities. ✓</li> <li>Style. It complies with the Manual of Style and its supplementary pages. ?<ul> <li>(a) Visual appeal. It makes suitable use of text layout, formatting, tables, and colour; and it has a minimal proportion of red links. ✓</li> <li>(b) Media files. It has images and other media, if appropriate to the topic, that follow Wikipedia's usage policies, with succinct captions and alternative (alt) text if necessary. Non-free images and other media satisfy the criteria for the inclusion of non-free content and are labeled accordingly. ✓</li> </ul></li> <li>Stability. It is not the subject of ongoing edit wars and its content does not change significantly from day to day, except in response to the featured list process. ✓</li> </ol>
 * Featured list criteria

The list currently meet the prose and style requirements? <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 00:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Geraldk comments and suggestions for improvement as requested. This has come a long way, and is getting close to being at FL level. Some comments and nitpicky suggestions include:
 * All images in the article currently lack alt text, and will not pass flc without it. For suggestions for how to word alt text, see: Alternative text for images
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Reviewers are sure to comment that the images only include Brazilian athletes. Are there no other images available?
 * No. <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I would suggest consolidating some of the citations such that each source only has one cite, for example by source 11 and 12 into one. It's OK for citations to reference multiple pages.
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 17:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Featured lists no longer use the '_______ is a list of' style - take a look at 1998 Winter Olympics medal table to see a better way of starting off a medal count list. Also, there's no need to mention that they are sorted by gold medals in the lead, as this is now the accepted standard on wikipedia, and you explain it at the top of the medal table.
 * Based on 2008 Summer Olympics medal table. <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but the style is deprecated, which is why the 1998 Winter Olympcis list, which was promoted more recently, has a different beginning to its lead. The 2008 medal table needs updating. Geraldk (talk) 16:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 17:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Second sentence: 5,633 is a specific number, therefore 'approximately' is not applicable. Try 'In total,' or 'A total of' instead.
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Third sentence: it's unclear from your wording the difference between sports and disciplines. Maybe split this into two more descriptive sentences?
 * Fourth sentence: this sentence begs the question of why not all medals were awarded. Did they simply produce too many? Better to either explain it or not include it.
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Fifth sentence: the wording of this makes for awkward punctuation. Maybe split into two sentences or reword?
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Eighth sentence (starts Netherlands Antilles...): not sure what you mean by, 'improved their position in the overall leader board', please explain. Also, countries like the Netherlands Antilles, the Bahamas, and the Cayman Islands are plural and should therefore have the word 'the' in front of them.
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * In the changes in medal standings section, I would reverse the order to have the text first and the table second. That table, by the way, is something I haven't seen before in other medals tables and is an excellent idea.
 * Based on 2008 Summer Olympics medal table. <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, I understand, but in general it is better to give some context to the table before throwing it at the readers. Geraldk (talk) 16:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 17:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that's all for now. Good work - keep it up! Geraldk (talk) 01:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment A few quick comments, this image needs to be fixed, because on my screen there is no colour where Bolivia is located, and it looks like there is a body of water where it should be. Also, would it be possible to add some images of non-Brazilian athletes? I only bring it up because with the 2008 Summer Olympics medal table, there was a huge uproar because one image had two Americans in it. So some felt it was biased and it caused an edit war, until the image was replaced with one that had only one American in it. Also, you should add sume symbols to the table legend, rather than just using colour coding. ie. Add a * as well as the colour to indicate a first medal. -- Scorpion <sup style="color:black;">0422  02:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * --<b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 15:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Ready for FLC? <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 19:24, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be pretty much ready, but you optionally might want to wait a day or two to see if anyone wants to weigh in on the PR. Geraldk (talk) 19:30, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't wait... <b style="font-size:small; font-family:vivaldi; color:black;">Felipe Menegaz</b> 19:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, then go ahead and close the PR and nominate it. Geraldk (talk) 19:51, 10 November 2009 (UTC)