Wikipedia:Peer review/A Free Ride/archive1

A Free Ride
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because some concerns are raised in a failed FA nomination regarding sourcing issues. Please review the article to check if all available significant sources are utilized. Thanks.  Supernova Explosion   Talk  06:17, 21 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Images are too dark, especially the humorous title card. I uploaded a new version of the title card with greater contrast so that the text can be seen. (It was all black on my monitor when I first saw it.) The other still image could benefit from judicious treatment of a similar nature. Binksternet (talk) 15:07, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Your new upload was very good. Regarding the other image, I've found it to be best for highlighting the fake mustache. I'm not sure if the 3:13 still will be better. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  16:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I have seen the mustache image on several monitors and I agree it is suitable as is. Binksternet (talk) 08:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Comments really interesting read, glad I didn't stumble onto it at work! I guess most of my comments are questions rather than answers, but perhaps some of it may be of use (hopefully!). The Rambling Man (talk) 17:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason why we're referring to it as a "stag film" in this day and age? I'm not an expert, so I'm guessing that's what old fashioned porn was called?
 * "hardcore pornographic" you link only hardcore, but to hardcore pornography so why just pipelink "hardcore pornographic"?
 * You mention "Grass Sandwich" in the lead but don't expand on it in the main body (and hence reference it and it alone in the lead), FAC would ordinarily be upset by that...
 * "from the lower stratum of society" what does this really mean in encyclopaedic terms? Sounds like something I'd read in a middle-upper class snobby newspaper!
 * "The film is currently in the collection of the Kinsey Institute " however the infobox indicates it's public domain, do you mean the original physical film reels?
 * "A wealthy male motorist..." is he wealthy because he a model T or for some other reason?
 * "After the session is over," hmm, very euphemistic!
 * Could say that Dave Thompson is British.
 * Again, I think lumping "mentally ill" etc into the "lowest stratum of society" really should be a quote because otherwise it's not exactly neutral in tone.
 * "Al Di Lauro" isn't cited unlike his other two scholarly brethren.
 * You tell the reader where the Museum of Sex is on the second occasion, better off doing it first time round (I initially thought Amsterdam...)
 * Some references end in a full stop, others don't...
 * Fifth "Reference" needs an en-dash for the year range per WP:DASH.
 * As does Schaefer.

Reply to The Rambling Man

Statement: 
 * Is there a reason why we're referring to it as a "stag film" in this day and age? I'm not an expert, so I'm guessing that's what old fashioned porn was called?

Response:
 * Well, we know "stag" means "for men only". In the early 20th century, women generally did not view what is now known as pornography. The society was conservative, patriarchal, and women were not free. Pornography was only for men. In those early days, pornography was called "stag films". These films were viewed in stag parties and all-male gatherings. You can see from Pornographic_film, "Older names for a pornographic movie include stag film". Standard pornography, developed during the Golden Age of Porn and continued till then, were viewed by both men and women, thanks to the women's liberation movement, sexual revolution and sex-positive feminism.


 * You should read this reference (The hypersexuality of race, p.103-105) which will give you a clear picture on the difference between early stag films and modern pornography. Since A Free Ride was made as a stag film, it will be the most appropriate label for the movie, no matter if the time is changed. We are writing history. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "hardcore pornographic" you link only hardcore, but to hardcore pornography so why just pipelink "hardcore pornographic"?

Response:
 * Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * You mention "Grass Sandwich" in the lead but don't expand on it in the main body (and hence reference it and it alone in the lead), FAC would ordinarily be upset by that...

Response:
 * The fact is that the film has an alternative name, A Grass Sandwich. There is nothing to expand in the main body of the article about this alternate name. Which is why the alternate title is mentioned in the lead. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "from the lower stratum of society" what does this really mean in encyclopaedic terms? Sounds like something I'd read in a middle-upper class snobby newspaper!

Response:
 * Fixed. I have reworded it to "the cast were drawn from among people with low social status". -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "The film is currently in the collection of the Kinsey Institute " however the infobox indicates it's public domain, do you mean the original physical film reels?

Response:
 * Actually the Kinsey collection is just a print of this film, not the original. Thanks for pointing it. So I have reworded it properly "The Kinsey Institute has a print of the film in its collection". -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "A wealthy male motorist..." is he wealthy because he a model T or for some other reason?

Response:
 * The assertion that the man was wealthy is found in these two references — Filmsite.org and Smart Set. May be it is because it was only the wealthy who could afford an automobile, especially one like the model T, during the early 20th century. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "After the session is over," hmm, very euphemistic!"

Response:
 * Reworded to "After finishing the sexual acts, they return to the car." -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:12, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "Could say that Dave Thompson is British."

Response:
 * Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "Again, I think lumping "mentally ill" etc into the "lowest stratum of society" really should be a quote because otherwise it's not exactly neutral in tone."

Response:
 * Reworded. "Thompson notes that some historical accounts, which he describes as "casual histories", have suggested that the cast of early pornographic films were drawn from among people with low social status such as the homeless, drug addicts, mentally ill, prostitutes, and petty criminals. Thompson argues that this claim has almost no documentary evidence, and suggests that the actors likely had higher social status." -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "Al Di Lauro" isn't cited unlike his other two scholarly brethren."

Response:
 * Yes he is cited, it is Lauro & Rabkin 1976, p. 47, the same reference used to cite Gerald Rabkin. I did not use the same reference after the names of two different individuals because that will result in overreferencing. Where two consecutive names have the same inline citation, there is no need to give separate references. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "You tell the reader where the Museum of Sex is on the second occasion, better off doing it first time round (I initially thought Amsterdam...)"

Response:
 * Well, since the lead should summarize the points and the main body should give the details, I omitted the location in the lead and mentioned in the main body. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "Some references end in a full stop, others don't..."

Response:
 * Done. However there is no way to add full stop in case of the journal articles. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "Fifth "Reference" needs an en-dash for the year range per WP:DASH."

Response:
 * Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:31, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Statement: 
 * "As does Schaefer."

Response:
 * Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:35, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't see this before, but since RM pointed it out above re: periods. You're using citation templates in the references and putting a period after them. If you use cite book the template will automatically put the period in. If you use cite journal a period will be added there, as well. If you're interested, I think there's a script or something that converts them. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  12:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

are many of the basic elements which make up the typical pornographic film:" etc.
 * Comments about comprehensiveness: I'll try to read through the sources and note passages I see that aren't reflected in the article. Haven't read all the sources, but here's a few suggestions.
 * In Slade 2006, note 58 he mentions "some collectors insist that it was shot in Southern California;".
 * There's a bit more you could use at the end of the second paragraph of the Hoffman source "Here already developed
 * Williams p. 64 has a few bits you could probably use. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Please give the page number for Slade 2006. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  01:03, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Expanded the Hoffman bit. Done. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  01:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)