Wikipedia:Peer review/Amir Hamzah/archive1

Amir Hamzah
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I want to take this to FAC and wanted an outside look at grammar and accessibility (particularly how clear the context is).

Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:49, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

This article is shaping up into a very fine one indeed. A few pernickety comments, none of which detract from my admiration of the piece:
 * Lead
 * The word "Amir" appears fourteen times in the lead. I think it would flow more smoothly if you replaced the name with a pronoun whenever possible, e.g. at "Amir was educated", "Even after Amir", "Amir was recalled", "Amir fulfilled", "when Amir first travelled", "Amir stopped writing", and so on.
 * "to marry his the sultan's daughter" – "his" or "the" but not both.
 * D'oh! Was going to go with "his uncle's daughter" but thought her position as the sultan's daughter was more important.
 * "Of the two, Nyanyi Sunyi" – the last mention of this and its companion was in the previous para, and perhaps "collections" after "two" would be helpful to the reader here.
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Early life
 * "He remained a devout Muslim throughout his life. However, sources disagree on the period in which he completed his formal studies." – the "However" implies that the second statement somehow contradicts the first, but there seems no connexion between the two.
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Second para – Lots more "Amirs" here, too, that would, I think, be better as "he" or "his": "Amir started", "Amir's first year", "Amir first studied". In fact I recommend you go through the whole article converting his name to he/him/his wherever you sensibly can. At present "Amir" occurs 154 times in your text.


 * Java
 * "whence he completed" – do you mean "where" rather than "from where"?
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "social organisation" – but in the lead you use the" –ize form rather than the" –ise in "idealized". There are other incidences of both forms elsewhere in the article, and I think you ought to go for consistency.
 * Will keep an eye out. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "His time at school also introduced him" – something a bit strange here: it wasn't the time that introduced him
 * Fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "meaning this his education" – meaning that?
 * D'oh! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "continued her studies to Lembang" – at rather than to?
 * D'oh! That's an Indonesianism right there ("melanjutkan pelajarannya ke Lembang"). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "Amir had to fulfill" – the OED spells the word "fulfil", though I have a vague recollection that the third "l" is given in American dictionaries. I just mention this and leave it to you.
 * Fixed — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Return to Langkat
 * "Now an heir to the throne" – that comes rather out of the blue. Was this heirdom because he had married Kamiliah? I think perhaps you might mention it if so.
 * Went with "Prince" instead, which is a bit more pertinent. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Influences
 * "Multiple writers have commented" – can you multiply a writer? I think perhaps just "many" would be preferable here.
 * "Islamic dogma and doctrine" – possibly showing my ignorance here, but I'd have said dogma and doctrine are the same thing. Quite prepared to be told I'm wrong.
 * Done and done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "influences from the Christian Bible is likewise evident" – either "influences…are or "influence…is"
 * D'oh! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "anthropomorphic" – worth a blue link, I'd say.
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Works
 * There is no single correct answer to the question of how to write numbers in prose, but I must say "1 original book" looks most peculiar. I think the old rule of thumb, words for one to ten and numerals for 11 and upwards, is not a bad one. On the other hand I see that at Nyanyi Sunyi later in the article you write "twenty-four", which looks fine.
 * Per WP:NUMERAL we're not supposed to mix and match. Have gone with full words instead. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't know about the WP:NUMERAL prescription, so I've learned something today. Thank you. Tim riley (talk) 16:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Style
 * "He also borrows heavily" – just for once I think this "he" would be better as "Amir".
 * Alright. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "different than his later ones" – different from, or at a pinch, to, but I've not seen "different than" before. But perhaps this is our old friend WP:Engvar.
 * Or me being silly. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Awards and recognition
 * "Dutch scholar of Indonesian literature A. Teeuw" – unnecessary repetition: you've already told us where Teeuw is from and what he does.
 * D'oh! That's what I get for moving these names around all the time. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "Balfas describes Amir's works are "the best literary products to surpass their time" – Two things here: "are" should be "as", and what on earth does the quotation mean? I can't make any sense of it at all.
 * The quote in-context is here. Based on my reading, it seems Balfas is suggesting that Amir's genius was not fully understood during his lifetime, that the poet was ahead of his time. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you're right. Still, don't be surprised if some other pernickety soul raises the same point at FAC. Tim riley (talk) 16:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

That's all from me. If going on to FAC I hope you will let me know. – Tim riley (talk) 10:35, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Afterthought: on another swift re-reading I found myself uneasy about the word "executed", which I take to mean a lawful process by due authority rather than a lynching by rebels. The Oxford English Dictionary defines "execution" in this sense as "the putting (a person) to death in pursuance of a judicial or authoritative sentence". Perhaps the neutral "killed" would be safer, but I certainly don't press the point. Pray ponder and accept or reject as you think best. Tim riley (talk) 16:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. Will do the non-Amir related stuff first. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I cut back on the Amir's. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:57, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Very good point, and have changed the article to reflect this after consulting summary execution and seeing that it too presupposes at least some legitimate authority. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:32, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Comments from SchroCat
Just a few little tweaks and polishes here from me. I've made a few edits here and there: feel free to revert anything you don't like. Overall a very nice article which I found interesting and readable. First batch of comments below:

Early life
 * "while Dini casts the relationship as vow to be always faithful." Needs a tweak here for clarity, even if it's just "a vow".

Java "he wrote his brother Jakfar": -> "to his brother"

Return to Langkat
 * "the fleding poet": fledgling?

Influences
 * The paragraph beginning "Many writers have commented" lists a number of people and their backgrounds: I note you don't use the definite article for the descriptions ("Others, such as Dutch scholar of Indonesian literature": the Dutch scholar...). I'm not sure which varietal of English the article is in, but BrEng tends to use the article; AmEng doesn't. I'm not going to be prescriptive about the use, but draw it to your attention for consideration.

Done to the end of Influences: more to follow shortly. Pip pip! – SchroCat (talk) 10:25, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Done, I think. Glad you're enjoying this! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:31, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Second bite of the cherry...

Works
 * "Within the collections, Johns writes, the poems appear to be generally arranged in chronological order; he points to the various degrees of maturity as a writer Amir shows within the collections." – duplication of "within the collections". The second part is a bit clumsy too, perhaps it could read "he points to the various degrees of maturity Amir shows as his writing developed", or similar?
 * Sure. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "...world to show wholely" Does the quote say "wholely" or "wholly"?
 * Quote is Indonesian, translation is mine. Spelling fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

That's it from me: nicely written, well put together and an excellent coverage of someone I'd only come across through your list—it's certainly good enough for FAC and I'll be happy to have another read through when it gets there. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 12:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the feedback! Yeah, the list came out pretty nicely as well ... I had a good template to build on. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)