Wikipedia:Peer review/Anbe Sivam/archive1

Anbe Sivam
I've listed this article for peer review because I wish to take it to FA. In doing so it would be my first solo attempt at it. Constructive comments are most welcome. Thanks, —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 01:07, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Z105space
Good work so far. Here's what I found:
 * Images
 * Alt text for all images
 * Done.


 * Plot
 * "bad weather" - I think this maybe casual writing. How about poor weather?
 * Done. Reworded.


 * "get rid of him" - This is slang.
 * Done. Reworded.


 * Development
 * "After completing a draft of the film's script, in early 2002" - The comma should go after "2002".
 * Done.


 * Cast and crew
 * "The actress Kiran Rathod, well-known from the success of Gemini (2002)," - You don't need to mention Rathod's first name after it has first been mentioned (in the plot subsection) and I think the first part of this sentence could be reworded slightly.
 * Done. Reworded.


 * Themes and infulences
 * Delink Chennai and Bhubaneswar as both are already linked in the earlier plot subsection.
 * Done.


 * Critical response
 * Rediff.com should be linked.
 * Done.


 * Box office
 * "In 2013, Sundar C. revealed that due to the failure of the film, he did not have any chance to direct further films," - repititon of "film".
 * Done. Reworded.


 * Accolades
 * The accolades table should have scope="col" in its columns and scope="row" for the rows per MOS:DTAB.
 * Done.

I will have another look later on. Interesting film I must say. Z105space (talk) 08:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Z105space. Your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 10:01, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Midnightblueowl

 * "lead roles, with Nassar, Santhana Bharathi, Seema and Uma Riyaz Khan playing supporting roles." Here "roles" is a little repetitive. Perhaps one of these could be replaced; "playing supporting characters" or something. It's not a major issue. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I would recommend putting an Oxford comma after "atheism" in the lede. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The quotebox starting "It [Anbe Sivam] changed me personally and professionally..." could perhaps be moved up a paragraph. It looks a little cluttered in the space that it currently inhabits. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Resolved your comments thus far. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 11:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Bede735
Infobox


 * Inside the infobox, use the Plainlist template for lists in the writer, starring, and producer fields per Infobox film template guidance.
 * Done.


 * Include the budget and gross, if available.
 * I avoid including it in the infobox as it would result in possible edit warring with IPs. It happened that way with my previous FAC, Enthiran. Which is why you don't see the box office and budget there. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 08:52, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand. Bede735 (talk) 12:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Lead


 * Remove the extra period after Sundar C. per MOS:CONSECUTIVE.
 * If you mean Sundar C., that's how his name is spelt. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 09:05, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I meant the hard stop after "Sundar C.". I removed it. Bede735 (talk) 12:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * dialogues > dialogue
 * Done.


 * Suggested: The soundtrack and score were composed ...
 * Done.

Plot


 * Suggested: Aras gets a notion that Nalla > Aras suspects that Nalla is a terrorist and informs the authorities, but later learns he is mistaken.
 * Done. "later learns" sounds a bit vague. He sees Nalla getting interrogated by the authorities secretly. I've changed the sentence to "Aras suspects Nalla is a terrorist and informs the authorities, only to discover that he was mistaken".


 * Suggested: Aras's bag gets stolen on the way, leaving him with a credit card that no one accepts.
 * Done.


 * Suggested: Move this sentence to the previous paragraph: While waiting at the Ichchapuram railway station for the Coromandel Express, Nalla begins to tell Aras his story.
 * Done.


 * Suggested: The film then transitions to a few years earlier > A few years earlier, a good-looking Nalla ...
 * Done.


 * To to prevent disruption > To prevent disruption
 * Done.

Cast


 * An editor pointed out to me that this use of Template:Quote box is not consistent with the template guidance: "This template is meant for pull quotes, the visually distinctive repetition of text that is already present on the same page." I know that many articles do not follow this template guidance. For Olivia, at the suggestion of this editor, I changed mine and used Template:Quote which worked out nicely I think. You may want to consider a similar approach, putting this quote at the start of the Cast and crew section using Template:Quote.
 * Done.

Production > Filming


 * Suggested: Principal photography for the film commenced in July 2002.[26] Move this sentence to start the second paragraph to avoid the disconnected sequence of June, April, back to June.
 * Done.

I will complete my review later this week. Bede735 (talk) 21:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Themes and influences


 * These two sentences seem out of place in the first paragraph: "The basic plot of Anbe Sivam bears resemblance to the 1987 road film, Planes, Trains and Automobiles directed by John Hughes, which starred Steve Martin and John Candy in the lead roles. Haasan and Madhavan reprise the roles played by Candy and Martin in that film, respectively." If Panes, Trains ... was an influence on the making of Anbe Sivam, I suggest moving it into the last paragraph, grouping the influences together in one paragraph.
 * Done.


 * The main theme of the film could be presented more clearly in the first paragraph. From what you've presented in this section, it appears that the main theme is humanism as the "morally superior choice" and transforming principle. If this is the case, maybe make that explicit, something like, "Haasan presents this morally superior choice in theform of humanism, in contast to capitalism ..."
 * Don't quite understand what you want me to do here. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 04:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The changes you made to the first paragraph clarify the theme. Bede735 (talk) 12:02, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Done.

Release


 * Suggestion (first paragraph, second sentence): "The film's release coincided with the Thai Pongal festival and opened the same week as five other films, including ..."
 * Done. But there is a repetition of "the" in your sentence. I've tweaked it to "The film's release coincided with the Thai Pongal festival and opened alongside five other films, including..."

Critical response


 * Suggestion (first paragraph, first sentence): "A critic from the Tamil magazine Ananda Vikatan expressed appreciation ..."
 * Done.


 * Did the review by Baradwaj Rangan appear in any magazine or web site?
 * No. But this is Rangan's own official website. So, it is reliable if that's what you wish to know. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 04:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Suggestion (second paagraph, second sentence): In his review of the DVD in The Times of India, M. Suganth called it ..."
 * I've changed it to "In his review of the film's DVD, M. Suganth, writing for The Times of India," if that's alright.

Legacy
 * Consider using Template:Quote for the quote.
 * I prefer it better as a quote box for this one. It would seem like WP:PUFF if I put it up as a quote. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 04:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Suggestion (first paragraph): "Following its release, Anbe Sivam attained cult status in Tamil ..."
 * Done.


 * Suggestion (first paragraph): "director Bala revealed that a scene in Anbe Sivam inspired him to make his film, referring to a scene ..."
 * Done. Tweaked it to "director Bala revealed that a scene in Anbe Sivam where Kamal Haasan says to Madhavan, "when we love others unconditionally without any expectation, we become Gods", inspired him to make his film".


 * Suggestion (first paragraph): "Bala also made a reference to Anbe Sivam in his 2003 ..."
 * Done.


 * Suggestion (second paragraph): "In 2013 Haricharan Pudipeddi of the Indo-Asian News Service agency, included Anbe Sivam in his list of "Kamal's most underrated films", and noted that the film remains "underrated to date". He believed the reason for the film's commercial failure was that audiences misunderstood the "sarcastic undertones associated with atheism".[81]
 * Done.

I hope my suggestions help. Regards, Bede735 (talk) 18:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Bede735. Your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 04:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Krimuk90
I've copy-edited the lead and plot sections myself, and I'll continue to do that for the rest of the sections soon. One concern:
 * "Padayatchi's assistant, however, spares Nalla as he believes that his wrongdoings had cost him his daughter's life." I couldn't tie this to anything previously mentioned. Whose daughter are you talking about? Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 04:55, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The assistant's daughter. I've written it now as "the former's daughter's life." —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 05:00, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * My concern is that we aren't really told about the assistant's daughter before this. So I'm not sure how this is linked to the plot. Am I missing something here? Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 05:09, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The daughter isn't that relevant to the story until the climax. The guy suddenly has a change of heart before he kills Haasan. He believed that the wrongful deeds he committed for his boss Padayatchi might result in grave consequences, which inevitably came in the form of his daughter's death. So, to save himself from further sin, he decides not to kill Haasan and requests him to stay as far away from Padayatchi as possible. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 08:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can briefly say that instead in the plot. Makes better sense. :) Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 11:43, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 11:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

More comments:
 * I don't understand the context or the meaning of this quote: "You could have knocked me down with a feather, so great was my shock. Then he continued, 'I have something for you. We should catch up!"
 * The paragraph on Haasan's make-up and detention at the airport seems a bit of a misfit in the "filming" section since all of that took place before filming began.
 * "The team also shot in relatively empty locations, meaning that the shooting schedule was flexible, with one day being cancelled due to dialogues not being ready." Not quite encyclopedic. Please rephrase.
 * Massive sentence: "Rangan considered this to be Haasan's acknowledgement of the "interconnectedness of the nation" and "the world beyond India", and that the actor had experimented with the concept before with the Bengali language and meeting Bengalis in Mahanadi (1994), a Telugu-speaking love interest in Nammavar (1994), marrying a Bengali woman in Hey Ram (2000), conducting investigations with an American associate in Vettaiyaadu Vilaiyaadu (2006), and marriage to a Frenchwoman in Manmadan Ambu (2010)." Please split this.
 * I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this statement; "After composing the tune for the title song, Vidyasagar explained the situation of the song to Haasan, who in turn, explained it to Madhavan."
 * The fact about the film being an "oxygen cylinder to Tamil cinema" is best put in quotes.
 * You need to introduce who Baradwaj Rangan is. Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 08:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have resolved all your comments. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 08:13, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * One last comment: I see that at the 51st Filmfare Awards South, the film received several additional nominations. You need to include that as well. Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 08:19, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Lack of reliable and disputable sources, such as G. Dhananjayan's Pride of Tamil Cinema and Best of Tamil Cinema (the former almost copies word-by-word from Wikipedia (WP:MIRROR), while Best is more or less original but still disputable due to being written by the same author). Quoting Geoffrey Rush from POC 3: At World's End, "If you have a better alternative, please, share." —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 08:27, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've managed to come up with an alternative as it was done with reference number 32 of the FL List of accolades received by Kahaani. Do check and see if its alright. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 08:32, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's the best alternative in this case. I hope the information provided is correct though. Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 08:44, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * According to awardsandwinners.com, Haasan was nominated for best actor while the film was nominated for best film. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 09:03, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt
This seems the best-written Bollywood article of those I've reviewed. There are places in which I've hesitated over the prose and let things slide because I'm not sure if it's EngVar thing. Here, though, are the specific recommendations.
 * Lede
 * I would move the second and third sentences of the last paragraph to the end of the paragraph.
 * Done
 * Plot
 * " a physically challenged" that could mean anything from overweight to dead. Could you be more specific?
 * Done. Changed to "and the other is a cripple but witty socialist with a severely scarred face".
 * "I would put the part that is in Nalla's past into the past tense.
 * Done
 * Cast
 * "According to Rathod, then fresh from Gemini (2002), mentioned in an interview about her wish to work with Haasan." needs work.
 * Done. Removed the sentence you've mentioned here.
 * Filming
 * "extensive art direction"
 * Done. Changed to "settings".
 * "time allotted for shooting" perhaps "shooting schedule"
 * Done.
 * Themes
 * The description of the two in the plot section seems to be duplicated here, complete with the physically challenged wit. I would suggest finding something else to say about each at one place or the other.
 * Done. Tweaked.
 * "non-Tamil" Tamil should be piped to Tamil people as it is the first time you use it to designate a people. Regarding the whole sentence, I will say that since you've said nothing about ethnicity before this, the reader may think he's missed something.
 * Done.
 * "before in Mahanadi (1994), Nammavar (1994), Hey Ram (2000), Vettaiyaadu Vilaiyaadu (2006), Dasavathaaram (2008) and Manmadhan Ambu (2010). " probably examples are enough.
 * Done.
 * "During the journey, a series of themes pertaining to communism, atheism, and altruism are addressed; the film also shows Haasan's views as a humanist" the reader may find examples helpful. Just one or two, total.
 * Done.
 * Music
 * praised the notes in one of the lines 'Nam Kaadhal Varaivome Vaa'.[50] This doesn't obviously make sense. And why the single quotes?
 * Done. Removed the sentence.
 * "that they had the film censored by the Central Board of Film Certification " I would say "reviewed" for "censored" In AmEng, "censored" would imply some portion was omitted at the demand of authority.
 * Done.
 * Legacy
 * "In 2013 Haricharan Pudipeddi of the Indo-Asian News Service agency, included Anbe Sivam in his list of "Kamal's most underrated films", and noted that the film remains "underrated to date". " Since you are picking the quotes from the list, I don't know why you would pick "underrated" twice. Also, sentences with quotes in them should have a reference either at the end of the quote or the end of the sentence.
 * Done. Removed the second sentence.
 * Watch unneeded explanatory phrases and be sure you are explaining to the reader who has not seen the movie. Quite well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:27, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Wehwalt. Your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated. BTW, its Kollywood (Tamil Cinema), not Bollywood (Hindi Cinema). —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 05:28, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Comments by Numerounovedant
Just a quick scan of the "Critical Reception" section - Will bring the next batch in a while. Numerounovedant  Talk  08:41, 24 May 2016 (UTC) Hope my comments help in building a stronger article. Numerounovedant  Talk  09:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "felt that the response it got would "set a new trend"." - Not sure of what "response" is the article referencing to the box-office? the reviews? Also, what sort of trend? I think you need to add certain more details here.
 * "praised Haasan's make-up," - critics usually don't praise the make-up but the make-up artist or the team
 * ""well-defined characters, a strong storyline and intelligent screenplay are the other vital ingredients of Anbe Sivam"." - "other vital ingredients"? there is no prior mention of any vital ingredients prior to this,m so talking about "the other" doesn't make sense Maybe shift this after her other "Haasan's treatment of the story" point.
 * " while calling the film a "milestone" as well as" = went through the review, the film was a milestone for Madhvan's career not as such. I suggest you remove it.
 * "despite the good performances the outcome is still stressful on the nerves." - it's less informative, try something more concrete from the review - "another predictable and corny film which is neither a comedy caper nor a class act"
 * "the film tries to do too many things" -> "the film tries to do too many things, and ends up failing at most, if not all, of them." - I believe the quote be better appreciated in full length.
 * The last paragraph may have a slight problem with the tone of neutrality, some quotes look at cutting down on the negative reception.
 * Thank you, Numerounovedant. Your comments, which have been resolved, are greatly appreciated. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 11:31, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks good, just a minor tweak. Feel free to alter it, Good luck! Numerounovedant   Talk  13:43, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

FrB.TG
Hi Ssven, the article looks sound. I don't have any comments to post. Good luck with the FAC! FrB.TG (talk) 06:22, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Frank.  —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 07:19, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you
A note of thanks to all who posted their comments at the PR. Thank you everyone for your reviews and contributions to the article. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me 10:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)