Wikipedia:Peer review/Apollo 8/archive1

Apollo 8
I have just completely rewritten, and expanded the article. I am looking for people to go over it and make sure that it is understandable to the layperson - ie someone who doesn't have a nerdish knowledge of the Apollo program. At the moment it is probably too long as well, and I plan to work on the article to cut back its size and would appreciate comments on where the pruning could take place. Evil Monkey&#8756;Hello 10:06, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Lead is too short, online references need confirmed retrieval date. I don't think that the article is too long, it seems to cover the subject quite good in its current size (36kb). It does seem fairly light on ilinks though, I think it would benefit from careful ilinking (here are a few examples of therms that should be ilinked, just from lead and first paragraph: manned mission, Earth, parking orbit, velocity, translunar trajectory, stage (rocket). I'd also move 'crew' and 'Mission parameters' sections somewere below the lead, the screen of lists under lead makes a rather bad impression, IMHO. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:52, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * This has all the markings of a great article. I think I'll be joining you over the next couple of days to do some editing. I already did some copyediting and ilinking on one section and will work my way through the article. Some general grammar and punctuation checks are in order, and I agree that some trimming is required; some excessive detail and trivia could be excised. I'd also suggest to take a look at that Apollo Program template at the bottom: I think it's kinda bare at the moment and could be expanded to provide a full overview of the category. I'll list some specific comments on the article when I've had the time to read it in detail. Good job so far! --Plek 21:17, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * That image of Goclenius crater is actually on the near side. It's visible from Earth. &mdash; RJH 22:48, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all the comments. I agree that in places my grammar needed some work and there are also probably some tense issues hidden in there (some of the sources I used were written in the present tense). As for the bit about Goclenius crater, the image comes from http://www.apolloarchive.com where it is just labelled as being "view of lunar farside from Apollo 8", and the information what the craters actually are comes from http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/13day4_orbits123.htm (search for the text AS08-13-2225).


 * My feeling is that it could be either shortened in the areas concerning the cruise to the Moon, or that the cruise back to Earth could be fleshed out more (probably the former). The problem is that the Apollo 8 Flight Journal currently only goes up to the third orbit of the Moon and the other sources (A Man on the Moon, Genesis) really only give a cursory overview of this part of the mission. I'll have to see what Carrying the Fire (by Michael Collins who was one of the three capcoms) has to say about that part of the flight.


 * I've moved the mission parameters and crew section to the end of the article. I too felt that they were, to put it bluntly, ugly sitting right at the top of the article. If a person came along they usually want to read about the flight, not how much the spacecraft weighed. As well as this, quite often there is alot of discrepancy between various values that are given for mass, heights and distances between various sources. Evil Monkey&#8756;Hello 23:22, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Obviously, one aspect is missing from the article that should definitely be added: the historical importance of the mission. Humankind was traveling to the Moon for the fist time in history! That was a Very Big Thing, and it received lots of media attention. The crew were welcomed home as heroes. They were received by President Nixon. They were chosen as Time Men of the Year (that cover should really be in the article). Stuff like that. I think the space saved by trimming some of the "techy stuff" should be assigned to document this important aspect of the mission. --Plek 19:58, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree totally, though I wouldn't know where to start having been born 17 years after the flight. I also think that there could be a look a just how terrible a year 1968 had been. There was the Prague Spring, Tet Offensive, My Lai massacre, Martin Luther King, Jr. & Robert F. Kennedy assasinated, French May rioting, 1968 Democratic National Convention rioting and occupation of university campuses by students. Maybe something along the lines of how the From the Earth to the Moon episode on Apollo 8 was put together. Evil Monkey&#8756;Hello 02:21, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Being from that era, I'd say one of the biggest impacts has been just that image of the blue Earth hanging in a great void. It generated an awareness of how fragile a rock we live upon, and how it is a precious, irreplaceable little place that ties all of our destinies together. So in that sense it raised environmental awareness, and perhaps had some significant impact on the environmental movements to come. On top of that, as you mentioned, the mission was a big ego-boost for the US, which had been suffering some setbacks. Otherwise I just thought it was totally, totally cool, although not in those words. I was glued to the TV for every manned Apollo mission. :) &mdash; RJH 20:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. Great comments. Strangely enough, the first mission to the Moon might have told us more about Earth and mankind's place in the universe than about our little satellite. In that regard, Lovell's quote should be in here as well (from Lost Moon): "The loneliness up here is awe inspiring. It makes you realize just what you have back on Earth. The Earth from here is an oasis in the vastness of space." (The man surely knows his way with words.) --Plek 20:41, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I've added a section I've entitled Historical Importance. Basically just looked at what else had happened in 1968 as well as the press coverage, the TIME Magazine bit and also the environmentalism. Evil Monkey&#8756;Hello 06:32, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)