Wikipedia:Peer review/Avery Brundage/archive1

Avery Brundage
This peer review discussion has been closed.. I've listed this article for peer review because… I plan to take it to FAC and I'd be grateful for any comments on this article.

Thanks, Wehwalt (talk) 23:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments from Tim riley
 * Comments on prose etc to follow, but meanwhile a few queries about spelling:
 * You write "metres" (twice). I thought this was the UK form and the US spelling was "meters".
 * It is. However, it is an international event.  I will research how US newspapers describe Olympic events and check back.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "medallists" – again, I thought this was UK not US spelling
 * "bourgeoise" – I was about to knock the second "e" off as a typo, but then thought perhaps there might be a reason for the feminine form that I haven't spotted. Pray consider.
 * "knowledgable" – is this the received US spelling? (over here we shove an "e" in before the "able") – Tim riley (talk) 11:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The others I think I will change per your comments. Thanks for your quick look.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Concluding batch of comments
 * Early life; athletic career
 * "and as prize attended" – probably the usual US-UK thing, but it looks odd to me. I think I'd add "his" before "prize"
 * "a 7 miles (11 km) journey" – 7 mile rather than miles?
 * "Classes at Crane Tech ran from eight o'clock to five; even though the school had no athletic facilities, Brundage made his own equipment in the school's workshop and by his final year was written of in the newspapers as a schoolboy track star." – There's a lot going on in this sentence. The first section doesn't seem to relate to the rest.
 * "coached by the legendary" – peacock word
 * "his mother (where he would live…)" – makes poor old Mom sound like a place, not a person
 * "At Stockholm…" – do the two references at the end of the paragraph cover all the statements in it?
 * It didn't say "sixteenth" so I shored that up with a quote from Maraniss.


 * Rise to leadership
 * "much of the team made their own arrangements" – conflict of singular and plural here, I think
 * There are a lot of subjunctives hereabouts: "would eventually lose this conflict … a post he would hold for over 20 years… would keep the post … several well-publicized run-ins he would have..."
 * I'll cut the one about the conflict between the NCAA and the AOA, I think and look at the other.


 * Fighting a boycott
 * "The Depression" – capital needed for The? (and again later under Construction executive)
 * "Stymied at the AOC" – a suitably sporting verb, but a touch informal?
 * Berlin
 * "He believed Brundage behind the replacement" – word missing here?
 * I think that's proper and the "was" is implied, but would welcome other views.


 * National participation controversies
 * "or as he had come to be known by then, the Marquess of Exeter" – perhaps "or as he was known by then, the Marquess of Exeter" Or for brevity "the Marquess of Exeter, the former Lord B".
 * South Africa and Rhodesia
 * "to honor its passports, a ban the Mexican government … honored" – too much honor (cf Falstaff Act I, scene I)
 * Olympic administration; challenges to leadership
 * "Brundage had been re-elected in 1964" – was re-elected?
 * Munich 1972
 * "captivated the attention of viewers" – does one captivate attention or captivate viewers? I think probably the latter.
 * Relationships
 * Die Walküre "started at 7 o'clock …." I wonder when Brundage said this: before or after the American musician David Randolph (b. 1916) said that Parsifal is "the kind of opera that starts at six o'clock and after it has been going three hours, you look at your watch and it says 6:20."
 * Guttman attributes it to undated notes in Box 245 of the Brundage Collection. I looked at boxes from that collection, but not that one. (at his alma mater, which has his papers).  It does say that he "remarked" this, by the way.

I notice that you don't mention his nicknames "Slavery Avery" (which I can produce citations for) and "Avery Bondage" (which I can't). If you're interested, I have an article about Brundage and the Olympics from 1972 by Chris Brasher that gives a rather favourable British view of him.
 * Business reputation: you quote Maynard Brichfod, and have earlier mentioned AB's disdain for public corruption, but I'd like a bit more about Brundage's reputation for square dealing across his career. Despite his many faults he does seem to have been an honest man, and it might be worth a sentence on this if the sources allow.
 * Art collector and benefactor
 * "Due to the war" pops up twice in quick succession

That's my lot. I started out thinking I was going to loathe the old cuss, but I ended up half admiring him. A really splendid article. – Tim riley (talk) 13:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for the quick response! I am working on these this afternoon.  Regarding Slavery Avery, I thought about putting them in and decided against it, they are not true nicknames in my view, but insults.  Certainly I doubt if anyone ever called him that to his face.  I found a grudging admiration for him, but my reaction was "Wow.  If he said that today.  Wow."--Wehwalt (talk) 17:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And yes, I'd love to see that article. I think you have my email?  Thanks for everything on this, and I have dealt with everything except where noted.  If I have not done something and did not say anything, it was probably an oversight and please bring that to my attention.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:53, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * In re your additions about the black power salute, they seem to me impeccable both as to clarity and impartiality. Tim riley (talk) 21:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the check and for the article you sent.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments: This is a first instalment. I apologise if any of these points have already been raised in Tim's review.
 * Lead
 * "In 1912, he competed in the Summer Olympics, competing in the pentathlon and decathlon, but did not medal". The competed/competing repetition should be avoided. Also, I question the use of "medal" as a verb; it sounds like a sports journalist's shorthand. Why not "he did not win a medal"?
 * "In retirement, he married a German princess and died in 1975." Too much conflated here; try to separate the marriage and the death, e.g. "In retirement, he married a German princess before his death in 1975".
 * Early life; athletic career
 * Close repetition "attended"
 * Can you say what sports equipment Brundage fashioned in the workshop, bearing in mind that he made his reputation as a track star?
 * Is there an alternative expression for "in the field" to use in this particular context? It is vaguely ambiguous, and the word "field is used later in the paragraph with an entirely different meaning. Why not just "and received an honors degree in 1909"?
 * "He was a major contributor to Illinois' conference championship track team his senior year, which defeated the University of Chicago (coached by Amos Alonzo Stagg) on its own field." Needs a tweak; at present the "which" refers to his senior year. I would suggest: "In his senior year he was a major contributor to Illinois' conference championship track team, which defeated the University of Chicago (coached by Amos Alonzo Stagg) on its own field."
 * "Upon his return" → "On his return" (?) Note that the fourth paragraph also begins "Upon his return to Chicago", so one or both will need to change.
 * Is there any relevance to the information that he lived with his mother until 1921?
 * "Leading" is possibly a better description than "well-known" (not known at all over here, and according to the link article they now trade under a different name)
 * Tim Riley always hauls me over the coals if I use constructions like "Brundage biographer Allen Guttmann..." He tells me (and I concur) that "Brundage's biographer" is OK.
 * Putting my oar in here, I believe "Brundage biographer Allen Guttmann..." and similar to be inadmissible UK English but good US English. But what do I know? Tim riley (talk) 21:27, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've used it in a number of articles "Hobart biographer David Magie" "Bryan biographer (he had more than Hobart)", etc.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:55, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You refer to "these intrigues", but I don't see anything that resembles an "intrigue" mentioned earlier.
 * The sentence beginning "Avery Brundage found refuge..." needs some subdivision, as it is too long and discursive at present. Also, the phrase "found refuge" may be thought over-poetical.
 * "He later moved up one spot the standings in each event..." - there seems to be a word missing somewhere: "one spot in the standings"?
 * "disqualified on a showing that he had played baseball for money" Odd phrasing. More straightforward would be "disqualified when it was established that..."
 * "Commissions from Edward's political connections and those Avery had made through his athletic career, together with wartime profits, made Avery Brundage a wealthy man.[10] Avery Brundage did not abandon..." Too much name repetition, and why "Avery" suddenly? No sense would be lost with "Commissions from Edward's political connections, and those Brundage had made through his athletic career, together with wartime profits, made him a wealthy man. Avery Brundage did not abandon..."
 * What does "split two games" mean? Sports journalism rather than encyclopedic prose.
 * Rise to leadership
 * I'm rather confused by the narrative in the first paragraph. The AOC charters a troopship; many of the team ignore this and book their own passages home on a liner. Then: "In response, the AAU founded an American Olympic Association as a separate group which then selected the AOC." In response to what, exactly - travel arrangements? And what does it mean, "which then selected the AOC"? Do you mean this new group chose the membership of the AOC? If so, how come that a newly-formed body was able to assume this power?
 * Apparently, a troopship, no doubt with four-high bunks or similar, was considered to be beneath America's Heroes. The NCAA saw this as the moment to strike and call for reform.  Letting the AOA do the work, and then dominating the AOA, gave the AAU a degree of separation.


 * "In the AAU, Brundage had become chairman of the Handball Committee in 1925; the same year becoming second vice-president of the organization." Does not flow well, with "had become" and "becoming" in the same sentence. Better: "In 1925 Brundage became vice-president of the AAU, and chairman of its Handball Committee".
 * "escaping beyond Brundage's jurisdiction." Second word unnecesary

Will be back with more. Brianboulton (talk) 15:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I realize it is a long article. I will look ahead of you and try to head off a few of these prose glitches.  I've addressed these in the article to date.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

(Note: I will do a tranche on Wednesday (23rd) but will be off-wiki all day on Thursday and possibly part of Friday too. Brianboulton (talk) 23:09, 22 May 2012 (UTC))
 * There is no hurry. Whenever you can do it is fine.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Next instalment


 * Fighting a boycott
 * "In a stunning result..." sounds POV/peacock
 * The link on Theodor Lewald goes to German Wikipedia, which isn't a lot of help to most of your readers. Wouldn't it be better to give a little more detail as to who he was, rather than the cryptic description "Games organizer"?
 * That's fine. I prefer interwiki to red links, but split the difference here, I put the redlink in the image caption and the interwiki link in text.


 * "Carolyn Martin"? Presumably "Marvin". And it would be useful to have a year for her article, which was written much later.
 * Berlin
 * Guttman already introduced as Brundage's biographer
 * Having described Owens as an African-American, is it necessary then to specify he was black?
 * "This was actually not the case..." - "actually" is redundant
 * "Another controversy which may have involved Brundage at the 1936 Olympics..." Last four words unnecessary; that is what the section is about.
 * "...the Germans were edged out by the Italians for silver, finishing a distant third." Normally, "edged out" implies a narrow defeat, whereas "a distant third" suggests the opposite. Just wondering.
 * Behind Owens et al. Agree it's a problem.


 * "Stoller recorded in his diary that he and Glickman had been left out of the relay because the two other participants, Foy Draper and Frank Wykoff, had been coached by one of the US team's assistant coaches at the University of Southern California." The inference needs to be spelt out; it is not clear from this what the grounds were for leaving the pair out.
 * It's like if they suddenly selected a lot of West Brom players for the England football team. The suggestion is that one of the assistant coaches, who had coached the other two runners, influenced the decision.  That's still unfair to Glickman and Stoller, but relatively harmless compared to anti-Semitism.  I liked Marty, he broadcast Jets games for many years, but I feel he had a bit of a bee in his bonnet on this issue (not that he would bring it up during Jets games).


 * "He believed Brundage behind the replacement" - surely needs a "was"?
 * What was the "Douglas MacArthur Award" for?
 * Road to the IOC presidency
 * "...the renaming of the AOA to the United States of America Sports Federation (USASF),..." As you spell out the second, you should probably spell out the first. And do you rename "to"? I would have thought "as" flowed better.
 * "Even before the war ended...; Brundage even sent parcels to Europe..." Two evens in the same sentence
 * Clarify when the balloting for IOC president took place, and the date from which Brundage assumed office. . "Extremely close" seems an odd description when the final result was 30 to 17.
 * Regarding the vote: Guttmann, the only source I have that discusses Brundage's election in any detail, hands me this cryptic passage:  "The election was very close.  Although the balloting was secret, Garland [one of the IOC members from the US] kept tabs on it and concluded that Brundage and Exeter were tied after 16 rounds, that Brundage was ahead by one vote after 21 rounds.  The final tally was 30-17, with two blank ballots, on the 25th round."  He then goes on to discuss a paper in Brundage's handwriting (I examined it myself) which lists the members Brundage believed had voted for and against him. Your advice would be very welcome here.  I looked at the Olympic Charter, it is not illuminating on this point, but has been amended (for example, they now have term limits for the president at 12 years, which is why Rogge is stepping down next year).  My best guess is that the rules then required one candidate to receive the vote of one half plus one of the total number of IOC members, and not all were present.  However, that's a guess.  I was hopeful of something in the Brundage Collection which would illuminate this point, but I did not see anything.


 * Amateurism
 * "As enforcement of these rules often fell to National Olympic Committees, Brundage found them less than enthusiastic about enforcing rules..." The "As" is wrong in this sentence. Also "enforcement/enforcing" are close together.
 * You should clarify that the "Sapporo Games" were the 1972 Winter Olympics
 * National participation controversies - Germany
 * a negotiating session was scheduled for the two German committees and the IOC executive board for Copenhagen." Unfortunate wording, "the IOC executive board for Copenhagen." Probably better rearranged as "a negotiating session was scheduled in Copenhagen..."
 * "In 1954, with Brundage now president" In view of the main section's title, do we need the last four words?
 * Capitalisation of "Opening Ceremony"?
 * I think that's appropriate. The Opening Ceremony is a specific ritual they go through every couple of years.  I think it's a proper noun even outside Lausanne.


 * Soviet Russia
 * "...with its citizens becoming IOC members..." I'm not sure what you mean here: is it "able to become IOC members"?
 * "The Soviet members were believers in sport, and completely loyal to their nation and to communist ideals." This viewpoint needs to be attributed, oherwise it sits uneasily in a neutral article.
 * The quote from Guttmann, describing the initial Soviet IOC members, is "were Soviet bureaucrats completely loyal to the Communist Party, which is not to say that they were not also believers in sports." If this is borne out by their actions (and it appears it was), how is attribution required?


 * The comma after "(though at his own expense) in 1954" needs upgrading (semicolon or stop).
 * Maybe date the "Rome Games" (it might have been given before, I'm not sure)
 * It's in the Germany section. Date added.


 * China and Taiwan
 * "When the communists triumphed..." I'd use a less emotive word.
 * "the IOC decided that if a either committee..." Something has to go.
 * "that sport" introduced without prior context. I think it needs to be "a particular sport"
 * South Africa and Rhodesia
 * "To prevent the new nations from overwhelming the ISFs, Brundage proposed that they adopt weighted voting systems to allow earlier members to wield disproportionate influence, which some did". Clarification required as to "they"
 * "For Munich in 1972, the IOC decided to have the Rhodesian compete as British subjects, which there was international agreement that they were." I would replace "have" with "allow" (followed by "to compete"), and change the ending to "which by international law they were."

Final instalment Friday or Saturday. Brianboulton (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I look forward. I think I am caught up, but note the above comments and requests.  I regret the article is so long but Brundage is a man with a public life that stretched over 60 years and who  had many interests.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Another chunk (though not quite through):
 * Olympic administration; challenges to leadership
 * Suggest rephrase: "The PGA-NOC from 1965 demanded a share of television revenue and that the IOC entirely leave the question of amateurism to the ISFs". Two split infinitives in the same sentence creates awkwardness
 * "As the PGA-NOC operated on the one-country, one-vote rule and the IOC did not, a powerful NOC committee would result in a significant shift in power to the Third World." I cannot see why this consequence arises from the one-country, one-vote rule. That powerful NOC would still only have one vote. And it might not be from a Third World country.
 * "de Coubertin's quarrelsome widow" - the description ought to be attributed, or omitted.
 * Political demonstration at Mexico City
 * "The following day, with Smith triumphant in the 200 meters, and fellow African-American John Carlos having taken the bronze medal, the two men, after receiving their medals from IAAF president Lord Exeter, and as "The Star-Spangled Banner" played, raised black-gloved fists, heads down, in salute of black power". An important sentence, but badly needs splitting in two; otherwise one gets lost in the subclauses.
 * Munich 1972
 * In the interests of neutral presentation, I would drop "famous" from the image caption.
 * Overall, I think this section downplays the negative reactions to Brundage's speech, the insensitivity of which was in sharp contrast to the comments of Shmuel Lalkin, the head of the Israeli delegation who spoke just before Brundage. Simon Reeve (in One Day in September) calls Brundage's bracketing of the terrorist attack with the exclusion of the Rhodesian racist state's team, "an astonishing display of insensitivity". In The Wall Street Journal, 14 April 2012, Daniel Johnson wrote: "The octogenarian American in his memorial address referred, astonishingly, to 'two savage attacks.' It took a moment to comprehend what he meant, but then Brundage explained: The Munich Games had been marred by the slaughter of the Israelis, yes, but also by the "naked political blackmail" of the African countries that, threatening a boycott, had succeeded in having Rhodesia barred from the Games because of the white-minority government's racist policies ... Brundage's audience tried to comprehend the jaw-dropping equivalence that he had just drawn, between the murder of Israelis and a blow against racism".
 * In my opinion, views over Brundage's speech have evolved over time. The stadium audience certainly wanted the games to continue, and as the Rhodesian question was resolved, the reaction has become "he should have cancelled the Games". (I don't think the IOC would ever have voted to dothat).  I tried to just give a sampling.  However, more may be needed and I will look to adding another neutrally-phrased sentence.  I haven't used his NY Times obit yet ... hm.


 * Perhaps also worth mentioning that, although the Games "went on", not all athletes continued their participation: the Philippines withdrew their athletics team, the Norwegians most of theirs, and several members of the Dutch squad.
 * Also: at the 400m relay medal ceremony just before the Games finally closed, Vince Matthews and Wayne Collett refused to stand to attention on the podium, yawned and fiddled with their medals. Brundage was furious, and demanded their expulsion from the Olympic Village.
 * I've made it harsher regarding Brundage. On the matters you suggest, I'd rather leave it with the massacre and reaction to the memorial ceremony.  I feel  that this has to conclude the section on Munich.  I don't think another Brundage tantrum (and they were kicked out of the OV on orders of the executive board) would be a better way, and as I said, he did similar things so the reader isn't being deprived.


 * Retirement and death
 * "...China, source of much of the art he loved." This is I believe the first mention of Brundage's love of Chinese art, so perhaps a slightly more detailed reference would be appropriate (unless I have missed an earlier reference).
 * Thanks, I will work through these. The art section's a bit later, I may just do an internal link.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:59, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've completed this batch.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

And, finally...

Not a lot picked up in the final sections. My main concern is how the article ends (see below)


 * Relationships
 * As you have already recorded Brundage's second marriage and death, it might be better to introduce this section in a retrospective tense: "Brundage's first marriage had been in 1927, when he was 40, to Elizabeth Dunlap..."
 * Construction executive
 * It's odd to describe a building as a "17-story $3,180,000 building" as though this was a recoognised type". I'd change it to "a 17-story building costing $3,180,000..."
 * "an onsite concrete mixing plant which also provided temporary office space for the construction." Sorry, I don't know what is meant here.
 * Watch for slightly jarring repetitions, e.g. "...built by Brundage. Built in ten months..."
 * Last paragraph: specify the "Chicago financial district" (for us foreigners)
 * Art collector and benefactor
 * "By 1948, Butterfield noted..." → "In 1948, Butterfield noted..."
 * Another repetition: "...another major donation in 1969 (despite a major fire..."
 * Private opinion: not too many laughs in the article, but the final (netsuke) paragraph is hilarious.
 * Legacy
 * I'm not sure about the choice of the final quotation that ends the article. I heard that speech, and have read it over many times since. To portray it as "appealing one last time for a world of fair play and good sportsmanship where race and religion are as irrelevant as political commitment and economic condition, for a world beyond the power even of hooded terrorists..." gives it a quite undeserved heroic dimension. It didn't sound like that, nor does it read like that. And to suggest that Brundage was either "idealistically inspired" or "quixotically unrealistic", as though there were no other explanations for his words, is bizarre. I realise these are Guttmann's words, not yours, but does the article really have to end on such a questionable note?

I applaud your desire to be fair and balanced towards a not very agreeable person (I am having similar issues with Cosima Wagner), but being fair sometimes requires tough judgements. Incidentally, the viewing statistics for the article are interesting; daily traffic has tripled since March. It can't all be your edits. Brianboulton (talk) 19:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Runup to the Olympics, plus the controversy about the moment of silence thing, I imagine. With both coming up, it's important to have this article in tip top shape.  I've changed the quote, still looking for a better one but this will do if I can't find one.  Once I implement these changes, I will close the peer review and nominate at FAC.  Thanks to both peer reviewers for their clueful comments.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)