Wikipedia:Peer review/Battle of the Wilderness/archive1

Battle of the Wilderness


I've listed this article for peer review because I plan to upgrade it (or restore it) to Good Article. Something that gets 9000 to 10,000 views per month deserves the work. I made massive changes on September 23, 2021—so the old comments on the talk page are now somewhat irrelevant. The article has already had an informal review by a third party. Thanks in advance, TwoScars (talk) 16:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

HF
I'll look at this, if I haven't posted something by a couple days ping me. I see Trudeau's Bloody Roads South isn't used; I have a copy and can give it a skim and look for useful information if desired. Hog Farm Talk 03:38, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

I've never actually read a length treatment of this battle, so I'm not quite as familiar with it


 * "In March 1864, Major General Ulysses S. Grant was summoned from the Western Theater," - Add that Grant had had a number of victories in the west, (especially recommend mentioning that he was the victor at Vicksburg)
 * Added this sentence: "Grant was the Union commander at Vicksburg, and also had major victories at Fort Henry, Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Chattanooga." TwoScars (talk) 15:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "Grant's plan for Meade's Army of the Potomac was to move south to confront Lee's army between Washington and Richmond" - I think it would be useful to mention that these two cities were the respective capitals
 * Changed sentence to "Grant's plan for Meade's Army of the Potomac was to move south to confront Lee's army between the Union and Confederate capital cities, Washington and Richmond. TwoScars (talk) 16:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "Third Corps was commanded by Lieutenant General Ambrose Powell "A.P." Hill Jr." - Is the Jr. necessary? It's almost never used in secondary sources from what I've seen
 * Dropped "Jr" TwoScars (talk) 16:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * In the section describing the Wilderness itself, I think you ought to go ahead and state that the Battle of Chancellorsville had been fought in pretty much the same area in '63
 * Changed the sentence about the size of the Wilderness (first paragraph) to say "The author of a book about the Wilderness battlefield says the Wilderness has a maximum area of 132 square miles (340 km2) to 156 square miles (400 km2). Two authors writing about the Battle of Chancellorsville, which was fought a year earlier on the eastern side of the same Wilderness, use only 70 square miles (180 km2)." TwoScars (talk) 16:12, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Ready for the May 5 section. Hog Farm Talk 02:55, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "and forcing the Iron Brigade to break and retreat for the first time in its history" - is this a way of saying a route? Because it was driven off McPherson Ridge at Gettysburg (although not a rout, it was still pretty manhandled I thought)
 * Which day were they driven off? What source? Gordon Rhea says "For the first time in the Iron Brigade's history, it broke and tumbled rearward in confusion, setting off a chain reaction that jumbled the Federal units behind." The earlier version of the article said something similar. Sources can be wrong. It would be an easy fix to stop the sentence after the word "retreat". Let me know. TwoScars (talk) 12:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

May 5 section is in good shape, will look at May 6 tomorrow. Hog Farm Talk 04:22, 29 October 2021 (UTC)


 * " Field's Division eliminated Wadsworth's force on the north side of the Widow Tapp Farm" - I'm not sure that eliminated is the best word. It brings up images of whole units ceasing to exist ala Stalingrad, while Wadsworth unit made it out of the battle, just in battered shape
 * Changed to "Field's Division drove back Wadsworth's force on the north side of the Widow Tapp Farm, while Kershaw's Division fought along the road. Although Wadsworth and his brigadier Rice tried to restore order near the front, most of his troops fled to the Lacy House and were done fighting for the remainder of the battle." TwoScars (talk) 15:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "and all four commanders accomplished little" - a little unclear who the four are? Was it the four corps commanders of Hancock/Warren/Sedgwick/Burnside
 * inserted word "corps" in front of commanders TwoScars (talk) 15:18, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

I think that's all the comments I have here; I'd say it's good to run for GAN. Hog Farm Talk 03:16, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Sources for Iron Brigade retreat at Gettysburg:
 * Bradley M. Gottfried, The Maps of Gettysburg: The two Federal regiments [24th Michigan & 19th Indiana], fighting independently, were flanked again and again, and forced to fall back as many as four more times from p. 98. From p. 100 The retreat [of the 2nd & 7th Wisconsin] was in unplanned installments. Seven companies of the 7th Wisconsin retreated while the rest of the regiment and the 2nd Wisconsin attempted to hold fast.  Hit by small arms fire in their front and flank, they too fell back.  The 2nd Wisconsin's Capt. Robert Beecham did not recall receiving orders to retire.  As he later colorfully put it, his men vacated their positions like a flock of birds that "are seen to quit their tree at the same instant"
 * Stephen Sears, Gettysburg: Grudgingly, step by step, the Iron Brigade was now pressed back towards Seminary Ridge from p. 210
 * Bruce Catton, Glory Road: pp. 279-280. Discussion is too drawn-out to effectively quote, but also describes the Iron Brigade being forced to withdraw from an untenable position with very heavy losses

My guess is that Rhea is referring to rout/disorderly retreat, rather than a fighting retreat such as happened at Gettysburg, but I can't confirm this without a copy of Rhea. (I have the North Anna work, but not the Wilderness.) Hog Farm Talk 02:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work. I changed from "and forcing the Iron Brigade to break and retreat for the first time in its history" to "and forcing the Iron Brigade to break and retreat" (We will have your work saved in this Peer Review in case someone tries to add that back in. The footnote still mentions that they had significant casualties at Gettysburg, so maybe it will never be an issue.) TwoScars (talk) 16:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)