Wikipedia:Peer review/Bill Lange/archive1

===Bill Lange===


 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to upgrade this article to GA status, so I need several sets of eyes to point out things that I may have missed.

Thanks, Neonblak (talk) 04:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC) :Note: Because of its length, this peer review is not transcluded. It is still open and located at Peer review/Bill Lange/archive1.

Comments - Yohhans - Going into this, I just want to say I know nothing about Bill Lange, so I will mostly be looking at the article with an eye at prose/MoS issues rather than content.
 * ✅* For the link to "Chicago Colts & Orphans", I think it would be better to link to Chicago_Cubs instead of just the general Cubs article. Also, from what I understand, they weren't the Orphans until 1900. Since Lange played until 1899, would it not be better to just say the "Chicago Colts"?
 * Both Baseball-Reference.com and Retrosheet have the team's nickname changed to Orphans in 1898. So, for consistency with the article and categories, I'll keep it as "Colts/Orphans" even though it does look kind of clunky. The actual Chicago Cubs article appears to be incorrect, and will look into correcting it in the future or leave comment. Made the link change to early years per your suggestion.Neonblak (talk) 04:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅* During his time in the Majors, he led the National League, or was among the league leaders, in several offensive categories including stolen bases, home runs, and batting average. - This is leading to confusion for me. I assume it means that he was the best in one of the three categories listed and also among the best in one of the three categories listed. However, I cannot tell which is which. How about splitting it up and merging with the next sentence? Something like, "During his time in the Majors, he led the National League in stolen bases, and . He was also ranked highly in home runs and batting average(or whatever is factually accurate)."
 * ✅* De-link common terms: Father-in-law, daughter, marry, divorce, fall, retired, decade, the dollar sign and nephews.
 * ✅* His nickname, "Little Eva", however, was a not so flattering description derived from his running style, which was thought to be unmanly. --> "His nickname, "Little Eva", was ascribed to him because his running style was thought to be "unmanly"". Also, merge this into previous paragraph and provide more information as to why Eva was used as the name as opposed to Jill, Charlene, or Mildred (you get the idea). If you cannot find a reason, I suggest removing this sentence entirely and changing the first sentence of the lead to "William Alexander Lange (June 6, 1871 – July 23, 1950), also known as "Little Eva"(ref goes here), was an American center fielder in Major League Baseball, who played his entire seven year career for the Chicago Colts & Orphans from 1893 to 1899."
 * ✅* The marriage was short, ending in divorce, he never returned to the game. --> Despite the short-lived marriage, he never returned to baseball.
 * ✅* Besides becoming wealthy in both real estate and insurance, he later became a leading figure in Major League Baseball's efforts to spread interest in the game across the world. --> In addition to his success in real estate and insurance, he became a leading figure in Major League Baseball's efforts to spread interest interest in the game across the world.
 * ✅* He was enlisted by the leading baseball figures of the day, to assist in establishing leagues in several European countries, that could eventually compete against American teams, while also scouting for undiscovered talent. - first comma is not needed
 * ✅* Shortly afterwards, he made his Major League debut .... .  --> Shortly thereafter, he made his Major League debut .....
 * ✅* belting eight home runs --> hitting eight home runs
 * ✅* This was the first and only time he batted under .300 during his career. - Ambiguous. First and only time in the majors or his entire career? Also, "first" is redundant. I suggest, "This was the only time he batted under .300 during his career in the Majors."
 * ✅* before settling into center field, - When? 1894?
 * ✅* Lange progressed his success in 1894, as he raised his batting average to .328, and finished with 65 stolen bases, which was good for fifth in the league. --> Lange continued his success in 1894 by raising his batting average to .328 and finishing fifth in the league with 65 stolen bases.
 * ✅* Statistically, compared with other league leaders, Lange's 1895 season was his best. --> Lange acheived his highest league rankings in 1895. (or I assume that's what this sentence is trying to say. If not, rephrase it.)
 * ✅* , while also hitting 16 triples, scoring 120 runs, and batting in 98 RBIs. -->, hit 16 tripples, scored 120 runs, and batted in 98 RBIs.
 * ✅* One of which occurred on July 4, when he stole five bases in one game against the Louisville Colonels. --> On July 4, he stole five bases in one game against the Louisville Colonels.
 * ✅* On July 13 of that year, he was playing center field when Ed Delahanty hit four home runs, two of which were clubbed over his head, and was unable to return the ball in time before Delahanty had crossed home plate for inside-the-park home runs. ... Why is the accomplishment of someone else being recorded in a section detailing Lange's accomplishments? I suggest removing this sentence.
 * ✅* But it was the game on August 31 that became the moment he entered into popular baseball lore, during his day, for a stunt that he never actually accomplished. Awkward sentence. How about, "During a game on August 31 he entered baseball lore with a feat that he never actually performed."
 * ✅* Lange made a diving, acrobatic catch in center --> Lange made a diving catch in center
 * ✅* broke his wrist on a throw from one of his fellow infielders. - what does this mean? did he break his wrist because the ball hit it? Can you clarify this statement?
 * I rechecked the source, and that is how it reads, attempted to clarify.Neonblak (talk) 13:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅*  His production slipped - Try to avoid peacock language. "slipped" --> "dropped"
 * ✅* Still respectable numbers though, along with his continued high batting averages of .319 and .325 respectively. - The first part of this sentence is POV; rephrase to something like, "His batting averaged continued to stay high with a .319 and .325 respectively."
 * ✅* While he was a very popular player during his career, it was not without controversy. --> While he was very popular, his career as a baseball player was not without controversy.
 * ✅* Lange became successful in both real estate and insurance in his hometown of San Francisco after he retired from baseball. - Either expand this sentence into a full paragraph, or merge it into the paragraph that follows it.
 * ✅* Chicago Cubs first baseman, Manager, Hall of Famer Frank Chance --> Chicago Cubs first baseman, Manager, and Hall of Famer, Frank Chance
 * ✅* In 1907, the California State League, a minor league, was declared by Organized Baseball to be an "outlaw" league, due to their practice of harboring players from the Majors Leagues who had violated the reserve clause to join a number of their teams - This is a rather long and cumbersome sentence. See if you can break it up and make it flow better.
 * ✅* The league had also become a rival to the already established Pacific Coast League (PCL), who after being an "outlaw" league themselves, had signed the National Agreement with Organized Baseball, saying that they would not harbor blacklisted or banned players. - which league? MLB? California State League?; comma after who; statement needs a ref, or is this statement covered by ref 11?
 * ✅* Lange became part of the board of directors at the YMCA, which help fund the expedition, along with $40,000 worth of equipment donated by Clark Griffith, to assist in supplying the new league. --> Lange became part of the board of directors at the YMCA, which helped fund the expedition. Additionally, Clark Griffith donated $40,000 worth of equipment to the new league.
 * ✅* What makes retrosheet a reliable source?
 * Retrosheet is ran by an organization called SABR, a trusted source for stats and information regarding baseball.Neonblak (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * |The Baseball Biography Project is used as a source. However, looking at the site, it looks like they list their sources that they use. Why not list the source directly rather then having to go through this middle man?
 * The Project is ran by SABR, a trusted organization whose research is used extensively, also, finding out which source the writer got the information from would be arduous considering none of them are linked, nor many of them are online.Neonblak (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅* Ref 4 is lacking a publisher and author, yet both are easily acquired from the link given.
 * Images all check out just fine in regards to copyright/fair use.
 * I think that's all I have. Interesting read. Bear in mind that my suggestions are just that: suggestions (although, the comments about refs are actual WP policy to have correct for GAN/FAC). So don't take offense. If you think you can reword things better than I did, then by all means, do so. Or if you think my suggestion is poppycock, you can say that, too. I am by no means a professional writer; I just know what sounds good in my head. Hopefully these comments have been helpful. I'll have this page on my watchlist for a while so feel free to leave comments here, and I'll try and respond to them.
 * Thank you for your extensive suggestions. They are extremely helpful, and I will get to work on these as soon as I can.Neonblak (talk) 04:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Changes completed, used almost all of the suggestions you made. Thanks again for taking the time to look this over, it helps me greatly.Neonblak (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I gave it another quick read through and made a couple of minor changes. Overall it looks great now to my eyes. Hopefully the people at Good Article Nominations think the same thing. - Yohhans (talk) 21:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Sillyfolkboy:
 * First of all &mdash; I fixed some minor things like references and rephrasing. I also linked some more baseball terminology to help readers.
 * Why is the third paragraph of the retirement section placed there? This material has little to do with the his retirement and should be incorporated into the article. I think listing the incidents separately will highlight how his career did contain the odd controversy - at the moment it appears as little more than an afterthought.
 * Normally the lead should provide a summary and the piece about his height and size receives no coverage in the main body of the article. I'm sure this can be slipped into the career section somewhere - maybe as additional information about his accomplishments in that skinny third paragraph of career?
 * In the first sentence of the second paragraph in career i would choose to wikilink either Runs batted in OR RBIs, not both.
 * I see multiple references of the Snyder book with different pages. Perhaps you should change your references to work similarly to how they do in this article to make things look a little simpler.

Generally the article is in fine shape and should breeze through GA. Perhaps even more in-depth research will be needed for a featured article status if you decide you want to do that. Either way, I think you should try to address the inaccuracies in the Cubs/Colts article that you noticed. Turn of the century baseball is not my forte but I'm sure that you have enough knowledge to fix things. Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 22:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

'If you found this peer review helpful please consider doing one yourself. Choose one from the backlog, where i found this article or take a look at WP:Peer Review.'


 * I just noticed your review of the article and will look into these changes that you suggested, they are very helpful. As for FA attempt, this is about all the information I could find on him, so I think GA is probably the end of the road for him.Neonblak (talk) 20:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)