Wikipedia:Peer review/Bobby Orr/archive1

Bobby Orr
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to nominate it for FA. It is currently a GA. I am not a great proof-reader. I am looking for input in general to improve the article. Anything missing, prose to rewrite. Suggestions on images to add, if any.

Thanks, &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 19:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments from Laser brain

General
 * There are links to dab pages, such as skating in the lead, car, etc.
 * Please review the overall linking strategy—there are some fairly common terms linked that may need rethinking.

Sources
 * It looks like you used an array of good quality sources, and I see all the Bobby Orr books that I would think to use. One thing to be cautious of is unintentionial plagiarism that can arise from following the structure of a book too closely. If you take a macro view of the page numbers for Brunt, for example, in the refs section, you will see what I mean.
 * Is hockey-reference.com acceptable within the hockey project? It looks fairly unprofessional. If there is a better source, it would be preferred.

Lead
 * Watch for parallel structure in sentences like: "Orr played in the National Hockey League (NHL) for his entire career, the first ten seasons with the Boston Bruins, joining the Chicago Black Hawks for two more." To fix: "Orr played in the National Hockey League (NHL) for his entire career, the first ten seasons with the Boston Bruins, and two more with the Chicago Black Hawks."
 * "A defenceman, Orr used his skating speed and scoring and play-making abilities to revolutionize the position." Why not "skating speed, scoring, and play-making abilities"?
 * "the youngest to that day to be inducted into the Hall" Something is off here... "the youngest of that day"?
 * "He first played as a forward, but was moved to defence by his coach, who allowed him the freedom to play his style." Is there a connection between moving positions and being free to play his style? This sentence implies it.
 * "With Orr, the Bruins won the Stanley Cup twice, in 1970 and 1972 and lost in the 1974 Final." Seeing a pattern here with not placing the closing comma after a phrase like "in 1970 and 1972". I fixed one, but someone might have to go over the whole thing.
 * It doesn't seem to occur throughout the entire paper, but the language in the lead is fairly repetitious with many sentences beginning with "Orr".
 * Personal details such as marriage and children... probably don't belong in the lead.
 * I think some of that may be part of my request that each section be summarized in the WP:LEAD during WP:GAN.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Early life
 * Even though the information is available, consider easing the amount of writing about extended family.
 * Lots of clunky writing in here—it's not bad, but you definitely need a strong copyeditor to go through with an eye toward parallel structure, overly long sentences with complex or disconnected ideas, and lots of name repetition. Need to introduce more variety to the text.

Running out of steam for tonight, but will leave more comments tomorrow. This is exciting to read—Orr is one of my favorite players and I'm glad to see all this work done. Very very nice! -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  04:55, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the thorough reading and your comments. I will work on those points. I wanted to mention that hockey-reference.com has been reviewed several times as to its reliability and it has passed. In any case, I can back up the stats with one of the Orr books. I should be able to do the rewrites that you've mentioned. Rewrites I can do, but when it comes to reviewing my work, I often don't spot the things you've mentioned. Again, thanks. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 17:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Orr and Eagleson
 * Why continue to note US dollars throughout the section when you have the hatnote under the heading?
 * "The two soon became a team, discussing Bobby's future plans without his father Doug." Unsure of the reason for the "team" rhetoric, or why we're specifying who Doug is again. The prose around Doug and Bobby needs considerable smoothing out—there are places where you seem to go out of your way to clarify which Orr you're writing about, where it's normally clear from the context.
 * "When Hap Emms, the general manager of the Bruins offered a" Another example of commas missing after dependent clauses.
 * "Or Orr would refuse to play with the Bruins and play for Canada's national team instead, like Carl Brewer." Fragment.
 * The section about how his salary was kept secret needs rewriting for clarity. What I understand is that they kept it secret to get around the "typical maximum" but what does that mean? What is a "typical maximum"? Why would they do that?
 * The official signing ceremony was held?
 * "At the time, it made Orr the highest-paid player in league history." What is "it"?
 * "It was the start of the player's agent era in professional hockey." Same comment. Next sentence as well... "it" is repeated throughout this para.

Bruins career
 * "In that first season, Orr was challenged physically as a rookie by the veterans" Redundant: "in that first season" and "as a rookie"
 * You link "Boston Gardens" here but it doesn't seem to be the first mention—you write "Gardens" earlier but no link.
 * Likewise, "assists" is linked here but it's not the first mention. The linking strategy in general needs review.

Post-hockey career
 * The first sections strikes me as an overly long bit of "accountant-speak" about his being bankrupt, and not necessarily a logical causal relationship. A lot of people's liabilities exceed their assets, but that doesn't mean they're bankrupt. Bankruptcy means you cannot repay your debts.
 * Check here and elsewhere for use of single quotes—we don't use them unless they are inside of double quotes.

Personal life
 * Some "fun facts" need to be trimmed down—the bit about jigsaw puzzles for example.
 * Check here and elsewhere for WP:OVERLINK. Common terms like "fishing" shouldn't be linked unless they have special relevance to the article.

Honours
 * "A museum, called the Bobby Orr Hall of Fame, where his Order of Canada medal is on display along with other exhibits." Fragment.
 * "team-mates" here, but "teammates" elsewhere. Need consistency.

More general comments
 * Needs a serious MoS review, to include consistent use of en dashes and em dashes, use of single quotes, etc.
 * Needs attention to WP:OVERLINK.

Alaney2k, the narrative is fine, as is the sourcing. The major weakness is the writing—it needs a thorough copyedit by a strong editor before it will be ready for FAC. I think that creating a laundry list of problems here would be less productive than just getting someone to go through it. -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  18:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks a lot for such a detailed peer review. I think that the writing (and its problems) somewhat flows from two things: there are a lot of contributors and there were numerous edits for the GA. I will work on all of these items. I will do some rewrite with all of the good advice in mind. &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 02:05, 24 February 2011 (UTC)