Wikipedia:Peer review/Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang (novel)/archive1

Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang (novel)
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to bring it to FA class and would like feedback regarding comprehensiveness, accessibility (considering how out of left field this is for most readers), and grammar.

Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Some quick thoughts-
 * Don't be scared of redlinks. Union Dalia? Panorama? The 1975 film? If these are notable, throw out a link.
 * Redlinked Panorama and the film, not sure about Union — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Oh Aij Tjeng" Is the "Oh" part of his name? This is something with which I'm not familiar- Obviously, we'd refer to a John Smith as "Smith" after the first mention, but how should we be doing this here? (I note you use the phrase "the elder Oh".) I also note That you later spell his name as "Oh Ay Cheng"? These kinds of concerns are something which throw me as a western reader.
 * "Oh" is his family name (see Chinese name). Aij Tjeng/Ay Tjeng/Ay Ceng are variant spellings of his name which depend on what spelling system is used (and the book mixes and matches Ay/Aij). I use their given names mostly because Aij Tjeng's father is also "Oh". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "As he examines the area, he sees Lily." He doesn't see Lily at the grave- he sees someone he believes to be Lily?
 * At this point in the plot, he doesn't have enough presense of mind to realise that it's not Lily. Changed though. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The term "Buddhist theology" is slightly loaded; that's a difficult concept to grasp. Is it what the source says?
 * Why The Victim of an "Contemptible Woman" rather than The Victim of a "Contemptible Woman"?
 * I had changed the translation, forgot the article. Thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "(perhaps excepting Aboel Moeis' Salah Asuhan (Never the Twain, published the following year)" Two open brackets, one closed
 * Got it, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "He finds only one character, the Columbia University-educated Bian Koen, as unrealistic, prone to emotionality unfitting of one with his education and life experiences." Oddly constructed sentence- could it perhaps be reworked?
 * Tried. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Just a thought- quoting some of the English language poetry may be a nice way to break up the text. I like that sort of thing, but I know not everyone does.
 * I'm actually more tempted to provide the Sundanese poem (with Kwee's translation and an English one). I'll get my copy and do that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "John Kwee; the latter cites four examples: a" Two colons like that makes for a complicated sentence, especially when you start to use semi-colons in the list. I'd recommend splitting the sentence.
 * Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "its "modern" message," What's the modern message? The comment about fate?#
 * Will consult the source again to see if she gives any further details. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Faruk" Is this a pseudonym, or is this again showing my unfamiliarity with naming conventions?
 * It's his only name (or, at least, the only name he signs on his books). A lot of Indonesians do not have family names. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "When Marsiti's grave in Cikembang is moved to Batavia, with empty spaces on either side for Aij Tjeng and Gwat Nio," You can't really say "when", as you haven't mentioned this yet. You'd have to introduce it by saying something like "When [whatever happens], Marsiti's grave..."
 * Reworded (although there was another clause at the end of that sentence) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)


 * When you say the book's second printing was by "Panorama", does this have anything to do with the periodical of the same name?
 * Yes, it was essentially the same (with italics for the magazine, without italics for the publishing house). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Engagingly written- you do well to establish the significance of the work. J Milburn (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for having a look! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Sarastro:

No problems understanding this, and I think it establishes the context and background very well. A few picky prose issues, and watch out for redundancy. Otherwise, another fine piece of work. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Lead
 * "The seventeen-chapter book follows a plantation manager named Aij Tjeng who must leave": Could we cut "named" here for flow, and replace it with some commas?
 * Sure, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Eighteen years later, after his daughter Lily dies, Aij Tjeng's would-be son-in-law Bian Koen discovers that Marsiti had a daughter, Roosminah, who greatly resembles Lily. Bian Koen and Roosminah are married.": A little confusing. It is ambiguous of whom Lily is the daughter, and why we have a "would-be" son-in-law. I'm assuming he intended to marry Lily, but some clarification would help here.
 * Tried reworking. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Kwee intermixed several other languages, particularly Dutch, Sundanese, and English; he includes two quotes from English poems and another from an English song.": Mixed tenses here.
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "an ode to njais, and a condemnation of the how they are treated.": Something has gone wrong here! And perhaps make it clearer who "they" are.
 * D'oh, Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "it soon proved to be his most popular work": Do we really need "soon"?
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "By 1930 there had been a number of unapproved stage adaptations": This does not really come across in the main body to the extent suggested here.
 * Cut "unapproved" as there were both approved and unapproved adaptations — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "The work was filmed twice, first in 1931 by The Teng Chun and then in 1975 by Fred Young": Redundancy?
 * Alright. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The lead reads a little choppily, in the sense of jumping from one topic to another, but that may be unavoidable.
 * Yeah, I meant to give a fairly succinct summary of the key points of the article (to avoid having three bloated paragraphs for 14000 characters of text) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Plot
 * "but even more polished. He falls in love with her and begins forgetting Marsiti.": Polished how? And perhaps "and begins to forget Marsiti"?
 * Education, mostly (rather than sing, she can play the piano too, etc.)


 * "Not long afterwards Keng Djim calls Aij Tjeng and Gwat Nio to his deathbed, where he confesses that he has recently learned that Marsiti was his daughter from a native njai he had taken as a youth, and that Marsiti had recently died.": Recently…recently
 * Trimmed one. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * " As such, he greatly regrets that he and Pin Loh had her chased away from the plantation"
 * Alright. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "she firmly believes that she is destined to die young"
 * Done, although if you read the book you'll note "firmly" is well-deserved (she's downright morbid at times)


 * "and deals a psychological shock to Aij Tjeng and Gwat Nio": Can you deal a shock?
 * Rewritten. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Writing
 * "as opposed to promoting tradition for tradition's sake": To avoid the repetition, what about "promoting tradition for its own sake"?
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "However, he also wrote extensively on themes relating to native Indonesians": I'm not sure however is justified here, and is not always the best way to begin a sentence (although I'm guilty of this and worse!)
 * Okay. — Crisco 1492 (talk)


 * "Kwee read extensively in Dutch, English, and Malay; he drew on these readings after becoming a writer.": Perhaps "on these influences"?
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Style
 * "was more "modern" that most of the more formal Balai Pustaka publications": Should it be "than" rather than "that"?
 * D'oh! Got it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang includes parts that are in verse": This is a little cumbersome. I want to suggest "is partially written in verse" but I suspect that does not quite get what you want to say.
 * Not nearly enough to say "partially written", but have tried rewriting. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "A final piece in verse, also in English, is the lyrics that inspired Kwee to write the novel": I think this should be "are the lyrics" or "is the lyric". Maybe avoid it: "A final piece of verse, also in English, consists of the lyrics that inspired…"
 * Sure, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Themes
 * "Building on this, Eric Oey of the University of California, Berkeley,": Does this literally build on the previous analysis by Nio Joe Lan? Otherwise, I would cut "Building on this".
 * Cut. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Aij Tjeng and Gwat Nio read into the two": I'm not too sure what is meant here.
 * about both (about theosophy and Buddhist ideals). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Sinologist Myra Sidharta, based on the same interrelations between Marsiti/Gwat Nio, does not suggest reincarnation": What is based on the interrelations? Maybe better as "considering the same interrelations" or similar.
 * Good wording. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Sidharta suggests that the novel was written as an argument that the illegitimate children of njais would be able to develop as any other person, given the proper education": Was this not the prevailing view at the time? Sarastro1 (talk) 19:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Not in the Indies, no. The children of njais were bastardised and held a very low social position (Corrie in Salah Asuhan, for instance, was reportedly supposed to end up as prostitute). Think mixed-race children in 1920s America, perhaps. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Comments by Wehwalt
 * Lede
 * Can nothing be done about that multilingual jam-up in the middle of the first sentence? Can some of it be moved to a footnote, or the infobox?
 * You never had an issue with that before, but done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Bian Koen and Roosminah are married." This sentence feels too abrupt in the flow of the paragraph. Suggest it be preceded by "In the end," or similar.
 * Sure — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Kwee intermixed several other languages" I think this is worth a "Besides Malay"
 * Alright, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Plot
 * "Not long afterwards" The previous event was "after the marriage". I think we're getting a little too fuzzy here.
 * No specific time frame given (Kwee [1930; 27] has "pada soeatoe hari" or "one day", so I'll go with that) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "After investigating" This sentence needs dividing.
 * Period added.


 * Writing
 * "Kwee had been raised in Chinese culture and schools " One really isn't raised in schools (well, not in the language anyway). Perhaps an "educated at" before "schools"?
 * Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang is divided into seventeen chapters[7] and, in its first printing, 157 pages in length." Need a "was" near the end of that.
 * D'oh! Got it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Are the stats on Kwee's other works really needed? It seems to me that sentence could be deleted without great harm.
 * Migrated to footnote. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "as opposed to" perhaps, "unlike"
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Style
 * "Sumardjo criticises Bian Koen's emotionality unfitting of an individual with his education and life experiences." no idea what this means
 * Tried to rework. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "poetic verse into its narrative. One of these, an original work in Sundanese, is sung by Marsiti after confiding her dream to Aij Tjeng.[11] Two others … " I think there's a mismatch between the "poetic verse" and both "one of these" and "two others". How is poetic verse something you have one of, or two of?  Perhaps instead of "poetic verse", "parts of poems" or "extracts from poems"?
 * How's "one example" (i.e. an example of poetic verse)? Marsiti's song seems to have been original and as such was complete, "If Those Lips Could Only Speak" was reproduced in full, and the other two were fragments/extracts. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "sinologist" this needs to be linked somewhere so the reader isn't wondering what his sinuses have to do with it.
 * Oh that was good for a chuckle. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Second sentence: you can't have multiple semicolons. I'd suggest a reworking of that sentence.
 * In lists yes, but since none of the entries has a comma I'll just use commas.


 * Reception
 * I'm confused by the title. I'd expect a section on reception to feature how the work was received.  Instead, it focuses first on modern-day criticism, and then on adaptations.
 * Adaptation is a form of reception (at least according to reception theory). Will move the modern reviews lower to keep it chronological. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Not much needs to be done I think.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the review, as always! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)