Wikipedia:Peer review/Bud Grant/archive1

Bud Grant
I've recently re-worked this Bud Grant article in an attempt to bring it to GA-class. I'm just looking for feedback or contributions about what else needs to be done to reach GA. Thanks! RyguyMN 02:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Jayron32's response
As a frequent GA reviewer, I can say that this article is close, but has some distinct problems that need fixing before it will be GA ready:
 * The image in the infobox has got to go. Wikipedia's fair use policy WP:FU in no way covers this use.  Keep in mind that from GA's point of view, having NO image is better than a non-free one.  An article CANNOT be held up for GA if it has no images; misused images are grounds for failure every time however.
 * ✅ RyguyMN 06:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Other than those two items, I think this article is GA ready. If those changes were made, I would probably promote this article to GA status. Other reviewers may see it differently, so understand that your mileage may vary. However, the article is otherwise well written, well referenced, and broad enough to merit GA status in my opinion (given, of course, that the above fixes were made).--Jayron32| talk | contribs 06:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is inconsistant about how it handles numbers. Some are spelled out and some are simply numerals.  See WP:MOSNUM for information on how this should be standardized.
 * ✅ Thanks Jayron32!  Did I catch everything? RyguyMN 04:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I caught something else: If Grant were drafted by the Lakers in 1950, then the 1950-1951 season would be his first in the league, unless something else happened here I am unaware of. Either 1950-1951 was his FIRST season, or he had played in the league before he was drafted?  Either way it is unclear and needs some work to make it better.  Also, the concept of "playing out his option" may need some clarification.  Was he really the first ever Free Agent in NFL history, as this makes it sound?  Since the CFL is a completely separate league, why would it matter, since he wouldn't be covered by the NFL contract anyways???  This needs some clarification as well.  Also, if he was chosen as the Blue Bombers coach prior to the 1957 season, then why does the next sentance say 1956?  Which is right?  Also, in the infobox you should change the external link to a wikilink for the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.  --Jayron32| talk | contribs  05:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Gopher backer
''Grant played football, basketball, and baseball in high school.[3][4] Grant graduated from high school in 1945 and enlisted in the Navy[4] during World War II. He was assigned to the Great Lakes Naval Training Station in Illinois and played on the football team coached by Paul Brown.[4] Using an acceptance letter from the University of Wisconsin to be discharged from the service, Grant decided to attend the University of Minnesota instead.[4] Grant was a three sport, nine letterman[5] athlete in football, basketball, and baseball for the Minnesota Golden Gophers,[3][4] earning All-Big Ten honors in football twice.[4][5][6]''
 * If it were me, I would seperate the following section out into its own section (called something like High School & College career). To me this isn't really his personal life at all, especially when you consider that above this part it talks about Bud's childhood, and below talks about his children:
 * ✅ I've created a new section for his high school and college playing days. RyguyMN 04:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Grant contracted poliomyelitis as a child, which left him with one leg shorter than the other. This statement seems a little too much like a random piece of trivia.  I would either remove it, or esle add some supporting information on how/if it affected his ability as an athelete.
 * ✅ This statement was removed from the article. RyguyMN 04:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Lastly, Grant is just as well known for his success with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers ... When I first read this it took me about two more sentences before it was clarified on whether he was a player or a coach for Winnepeg, maybe change it to 'Grant is just as well known for his head coaching' success the Winnipeg Blue Bombers
 * ✅ The summary was reworked for clarity. RyguyMN 05:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

That's about it, I think most of it is very good. Gopher backer 16:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

AZPR

 * Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, APR t 23:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Slp1
Well I know nothing about football, so you are going to get a real outsider's comments. Overall I think it looks very good and your references seem great. I have taken the liberty of making a few obvious corrections of typos etc directly into the article.
 * Lead: "Best known" and "just as well known" seems subjective (and contradictory!) and are not cited in any case! Something simpler is probably better.  I would suggest avoiding these terms and sticking to the facts. The word "winningest" grates on my nerves, I fear and I would suggest changing it.
 * ✅ These phrases were removed from the article since they could violate WP:NPOV as well. RyguyMN 05:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Personal Life. I agree with Gopher Backer and the idea of splitting the Personal Life section into his early life and putting the achievements of his offspring and retirement activities in another spot later.
 * ✅ These sections have been split.  Grant's achievements in high school and college were moved into the playing career section below his personal life. RyguyMN 05:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand this sentence "Grant decided to sign with the Lakers for the 1950–51 NBA season, his second in the league." His second what?
 * ✅ This statement was copyedited for clarification. RyguyMN 05:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It may not be necessary for Good Article but I would suggest a copy edit by somebody else who knows something about sports etc, as there are some stylistic things that might be improved with some fresh eyes. But overall, a great job! Well done. --Slp1 01:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Colin
If you are serious about writing a good bio article, then you should seek out his biography: Bud: The Other Side of the Glacier by Bill McGrane ISBN 0-06-015583-3. If you can't get it at a library, you can buy it second-hand from Amazon for next-to-nothing. Wrt to Gopher backer's comment about polio: this is seldom a "trivial" disease. According to this source, McGrane's book contains more info on the subject. It looks like he was encouraged to take up sport by his family physician as part of his recovery from polio. This is not an uncommon suggestion — exercise will help the weakened limbs recover. So, rather than being trivia, this could actually be a key life event. Colin°Talk 10:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)