Wikipedia:Peer review/Burma/archive1

Myanmar
This article has had tremendous improvement (particularly in citations) since its beginning. However, the article's content may need some copyediting, especially in grammar, uniform spelling. Before we attempt FAC once again, I would like to address some of the problems the articles still has. Thanks. Hintha 21:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I really like this article. It has improved quite a bit both in content and format since theFAC. I have just a few observations/suggestions that I'd like to discuss here before making any changes to the article itself.
 * 1) It seems that the article overuses parenthetical observations.  This causes the text not to "flow" naturally and makes for difficult reading.  I suggest removing as many parentheses as possible and better integrating the information into the text. <--Taken care of that. Hintha 00:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) The "History" section is very long.  I realize that Myanmar has had a very long history and most of the information is relevant and interesting (to me, anyway), but it's still hard to muddle through.  Perhaps getting rid of all the parenthetical interuptions will remedy this, but, if it can't be shortened without removing necessary content, we might want to think about dividing it with a couple of secondary headings, but not more than two or three. <--I believe this has been accomplished. Hintha
 * 3) Also in the History section, is it necessary to give the "new" romanization after every mention of a Burmese proper name (again a parenthetical interuption)?  Considering it has been 17 years since the changes were implemented and most of the cities/people are wikilinked (Ava and Bagan, for example), isn't it better to let the reader click on the link if they want to know "new" spellings?  This would help the flow of the text as well. --I've removed the parenthetical interreputions. Almost all of the names of kings and such also have alternate romanisations, and it is impossible to account for all of them. Hintha 05:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) The "Culture" section has improved, but it still feels a little weak.  Perhaps beefing it up with a paragraph about cuisine and another covering music might be in order? <--I've taken care of cuisine and music. Hintha 00:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) Personally, I like the use of Unicode fonts, but how many people viewing the article will have the Burmese Unicode fonts installed?  Even though I have the fonts, of the three computers in my household, only one displays them properly.  While I like the use of Unicode, it might be worth discussing the merits of using .png images instead. --Completed. Hintha 05:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Overall, it's a drastic improvement. Besides a little minor copyediting, those are my only observations/suggestions so far. Any response or comments?--WilliamThweatt 23:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have taken care of replacing the Unicode with PNG images. And as WilliamThweatt suggested, we should remove the excessive parentheses throughout the article. Perhaps somebody who is knowledgable in Burmese history should trim the history section, and retain all important items in the section. But we will need to cut down on some superfluity throughout the article to prevent the page size from being too large (it's currently 46KB). Also, we need to mention human trafficking (both internal: kidnapping of persons for the Tatmadaw, and external: prostitution in Thailand and China). Hintha 00:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, Andy t 00:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

A good article, but:
 * 1) "The country was ruled by a military junta led by General Ne Win from 1962 to 1988, and its political system today remains under the tight control of its military government, the State Peace and Development Council (formerly the State Law and Order Restoration Council), since 1992, led by Senior General Than Shwe" - needs to be broken up into 2 sentences. Done.--WilliamThweatt 18:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) "The renaming proved to be politically controversial, seen by some as being less inclusive of minorities, and linguistically unscholarly. Some disagree that the military junta had authority to "officially" change the name in English in the first place."  "The Mon are thought to be the earliest group to migrate into the lower Ayeyarwady valley. By the mid-9th century BC, they were dominant in southern Myanmar." --- "  The regime is accused of having an appalling human rights record" --- seen/thought/accused by whom? cite.  (1 out of 4 done--WilliamThweatt 18:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC))
 * 3) "The geographical area which modern-day Myanmar encompasses can be traced to the 1950s, as it was during that time that Burma Proper (Lower Burma where the population was predominantly Mon, Karen, and Bamar, and Upper Burma, which was predominantly Bamar) was re-unified with the Frontier Areas, known as Scheduled or Excluded Areas, inhabited by other ethnic minorities such as the Shan, the Kachin and the Karenni, and administered separately by the British prior to independence in 1948." - toooo long a sentence --fixed yesterday.--WilliamThweatt 16:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) "One of the national heroes in Burmese history of the 20th century is the founder of the modern Burmese army and one of the leaders of the fight for independence General Aung San, a student-turned activist whose daughter is the 1991 Nobel Peace Laureate and worldwide peace, freedom and democracy icon Aung San Suu Kyi of the NLD, who has been in detention or under house arrest intermittently for 17 years since 1989." - un-understandable: who was the national hero? - simplify it -Done. --WilliamThweatt 00:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) The whole article is largely uncited.
 * Question - presently, there are 45 unique sources cited...how many more are needed?
 * It's not just the number, but the distribution. The distribution per section is:
 * "History" has 11 - okay
 * "Politics" has 9 - okay
 * "Adminisistrative divisions" has 1 - okay
 * "Geography" has 0 - major problem <--Now has 3 (two from same source).--WilliamThweatt 22:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Economy" has 6 - problem <--Now has 8. Hintha 21:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Demographics" has 1 - problem <--Now has 3 (considering it's a short paragraph, that should be sufficient).--Hintha 05:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC) <--Perhaps we should summarise the Demographics section and move most of the more detailed info. into the actual article, which lacks content. Hintha 06:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Ethnicity" has 9 - could be better
 * "Language" has 1 - problem
 * "Religion" has 5 - problem
 * "Education" has 1 - problem <--Now has 4. Hintha 21:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC) <--Education should be summarised into a couple of sentences or a paragraph, and moved to the culture section (and all the references should be put in the main article (Education in Myanmar). Hintha 06:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Culture" has 7 - okay
 * You should work on these suggestions and notify me when you're done. If I'm still unsatisified, I'll create a comprehensive list of problem areas, especially comments that should be cited.-- May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 ($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|)  17:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) "Almost all cabinet offices are held by military officers." except? Clarified that statement. Hintha 23:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) Various sections, especially the "Geography" section, is very vague; needs more details
 * 3) Are the "Ethnicity", "Language", "Religion" and "Education" sections supposed to be a part of the "Demographics" section? I think not <-- All consolidated into Demographics. Hintha 00:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) There are a lot of red-links which either need to be made green or be delinked.
 * Question - I only counted three red-links, two in "History" and one in "Geography"...I know none would be ideal, but how many is considered "too many" for an article of this size?
 * You're right, none is ideal, as well as necessary. The red links jump out to the eye; that's why I had the first impression that there are a lot of red links.-- May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 ($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|)  17:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) You would do best to look at the India article, which I find is kinda perfect :)
 * 2) That's all, folks! -- May the Force be with you!  Shr e shth91 ($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|)  16:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have not gone through the whole article, just some minor observations:
 * 1) The map is not correct. Bangladesh map has been distorted in this map. Corrected contours of Bangladesh's borders.--Hintha 00:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) The lead is too short. <-- Done, with a summary of culture, demographics, history, and government. Hintha
 * 3) Compared to other sections, History is long. Needs copyediting.

Will try to give more inputs later. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the others are giving accurate criticism, but I have just one thing to add: the lead section is kind of small, especially for such a lengthy and deatailed article. Overall, though, the article is very high quality. RyanG e rbil10 (Drop on in!) 04:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The article dones't have infor on foreign realtions and military - should it?--Peta 04:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC) <-- We should remove all of the excess and superfluity in the article (non-neutral POV, unverifiable info., "own research" types), and make the history section a lot more concise before adding more material. --Hintha 05:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The following sentence needs to be verified: However, UNICEF estimates that functional literacy is closer to 30%. The value on its website states 89.7%. <-- Done.

Fresh comments: -- May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 ($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 16:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "The renaming proved to be politically controversial and linguistically unscholarly. Because the military junta was not legitimately elected, some governments have contended that it did not have the authority to officially change the name in English." - cite <--Done. Citations for the second sentence are available after the fourth sentence (it would be impossible to list every government that uses "Burma" over "Myanmar"). Hintha 19:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Traditional Burmese music is melodious and without harmony. Musical instruments include wind, clapper, and string instruments, which are often assembled in orchestras. The saung gauk, a boat-shaped string instrument consisting of silk strings and mica glass decorated along its neck has long been associated with the Burmese culture, and often accompanies solo song performances. Since the 1950s, westernised music has gained popularity, especially in large cities." - cite. <-- Done. Hintha 19:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Final comments
Most of the issues have been resolved and dealt with. Any other opinions, questions, complaints, or recommendations? --Hintha 06:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Great work! It's really good now :) -- May the Force be with you!  Shr e shth91 ($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|)  07:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)