Wikipedia:Peer review/Charles Whitman/archive1

Charles Whitman
This is the man who all the "Sniper in a belltower" references are based on, in 1966 he climbed the University of Texas tower and shot more than 50 people, before police reached his plateau and killed him. We've all seen a dozen references to "climbing a belltower, rifle in hand", so I'd love to see Wikipedia's article on the man be as thorougly informative as possible. (as of this writing, we are just working on adding some additional early photographs of him, and the first year of his marriage and such.) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 08:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There's still quite a bit of work to be done with the content. The section describing the events leading up to the shooting is wildly out of order. It says he killed his mother, went home, wrote the note, went home, killed Kathy, went home, killed Kathy (again), wrote more notes... what happened there? Further down, in the tower, first he shoots the family of tourists with the sawed-off shotgun, then it is noted that he had a sawed-off shotgun in his trunk. Then it talks about the victims (I can't tell who is who there), and then suddenly starts describing Whitman's outfit. Also, it seems that the shotgun is included in the "3 rifles and 3 pistols", but a shotgun is neither a rifle nor a pistol. No mention is made of his footlocker until he arrives at the campus; I'm not sure whether he loaded the weapons in the locker or in the rifle case he bought at Sears. I tried to do some fixing, but it's so muddled I don't really know where to begin, and I'm no expert on this subject. Kafziel 19:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The shotgun is not included in the 3/3, for the record, I'll try to make that clear. I fixed up the context on the note/home/wife/mother bit, it seems betwen edits the "returning home and killing wife" was still listed twice, thanks for the catch. I think the footlocker was just a problem of not defining what he was packing his equipment into earlier, so I tried to fix that up, hopefully it's better now.  (unfortunately we don't seem to have an article at Rifle case or anything similar, and I'd prefer not to explain what one is...not sure what to do there) - I also moved the contents of the trunk up before the incident started, thanks Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 19:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely delete "References in popular culture." FAC folks hate bulleted lists.  Much of this can be deleted and the balance made part of the Aftermath section and written as prose.  Get rid of the Simpsons reference for sure; it very much demeans the subject matter and the tone is really unwelcome.  I would consider framing the portions of the suicide note into Boxes.  Check out the Gerald Ford article I am working on to see what I am talking about.
 * One additional thing I would recommend is to try to contact some of the survivors or family members. Seriously.  Many will be willing to help you out.  Jtmichcock 02:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Added: I went through the last section and noted where citations are needed. Jtmichcock 03:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hrm, I'd disagree on the Popculture References section, it's not large enough to merit its own article, and I feel it is important to give a sense of context in any similar article. Going to try and take your advice on those textboxes though, they sure look sexy in the Ford article :) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 03:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Another thing I hit FACs on all the time is internal links not being set up correctly. A featured article should have perfectly formatted links, with no redirects. For example, right in the first paragraph, "sharpshooter" redirects to Marksman and "United States Marines" redirects to United States Marine Corps. You don't have to change the wording, especially not for the "sharpshooter" link (because that's a different badge in the Marines) but pipe them all correctly to avoid the redirects. Kafziel 04:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Speaking of the "sharpshooter" thing, I don't like the wording there; it makes it seem as though he was singled out for special training as a sharpshooter. He just went through the basic Marine marksmanship training, the same as everyone else. I know that's a new development, since the re-write of the introduction, but it should be fixed (probably just removed, since it almost goes without saying that Marines are trained in marksmanship).
 * I also notice some possibly conflicting information: If he joined the Marines in July of 1959, he would have needed to stay out of trouble until July 1962 to earn a Good Conduct Medal. But it looks like he lost his USMC scholarship because he was arrested in 1961. So the 3-year requirement would start over, and he was court-martialed in 1963. So, assuming both of those offenses are true, I don't see how he earned the medal. Stranger things have happened, but it's something to double check, at least.
 * Okay, that's all for now. Keep it up! Kafziel 04:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, went through and fixed up all the piping problems, wouldn't have thought of that on my own, thanks for the catch. Also nixed the marksmen bit as you suggested - though I'll leave the Good Conduct Medal details for someone else to hopefully pick up so I don't have to wade through learning about it(gasp!).  Can I ask your opinion on the "New, expanded introduction"?  Personally I'm not a huge fan of going into that much detail, and prefer to give just the bare details.  (I initially had the awkwardly-worded, but concise Born June 24th 1941, Charles Joseph Whitman is known for ascending to the observation deck of the University of Texas' Tower and Main Building, on August 1, 1966 and shooting at those below. His 90-minute attack killed 15, and wounded 33 others. In addition, he had killed both his wife and mother earlier, and was shot dead by police himself., now it's stretched out to three long paragraphs covering his tumor, the contents of his suicide note, his arrest, etc.  Better to pare it back down to just the details and then work chronologically through the article the rest of the way, or leave it as-is? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 05:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The article is long enough that the lead should be at least 2 paragraphs long, per WP:LEAD. I recommend that the dates of birth and death be formatted like other bios, and the re-written lead be combined with the original lead. Here's my suggestion:

Charles Joseph Whitman (June 24, 1941 – August 1, 1966) is best known for ascending the University of Texas' 27-storey tower and shooting passersby in the city and campus below. Whitman's rampage lasted 90 minutes and he killed fifteen and left thirty-three wounded before being shot to death by Austin police.

Whitman was an Eagle Scout and a former U.S. Marine, and his attack was carefully planned and executed. On the eve of the attack, Whitman killed both his wife and mother, leaving a suicide note urging that his life insurance proceeds be donated to mental health research and requesting an autopsy to determine what had caused his breakdown.


 * Change it how you see fit, of course. Kafziel 14:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)