Wikipedia:Peer review/Charles the Bold/archive1

Charles the Bold


Hello! After working on this article for a year, I firmly believe it is ready to be a candidate for FA. I've listed it here for a peer review, all suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks, Amir Ghandi (talk) 13:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Serial Number 54129
It is very much my wheelhouse, and I'm looking forward to going through it. Mind you, I see we don't get the gory details post-Nancy, vis-à-vis him being found frozen in ice, naked and half-eaten by wolves :)    ——Serial Number 54129  13:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC) Remember that multiple page numbers take the   parameter. I have fixed yours, but bear it in mind in case you add any more. The bibliography is throwing up a few errors. Every book chapter needs its page numbers in the bibliographic reference; likewise, the publisher's location. E.g.  . Journal articles need some kind of identifier (ISSN, OCLC etc). Some say that web pages should be archived, but I don't think there's a consensus on that. The important thing is consistency.    ——Serial Number 54129  16:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * References.


 * The Oxford Encyclopedia of Medieval Warfare and Military Technology doesn't seem to be using any page numbers. I'll be adding them for the rest though Amir Ghandi (talk) Amir Ghandi (talk) 16:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yep, no problem there.  ——Serial Number 54129  16:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Stupid question, but should I use Template:Cite encyclopedia for Oxford? Amir Ghandi (talk) Amir Ghandi (talk) 16:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * A can of worms, Amir! I use Cite web, because, well it's a website. But as you say, by the same token, Cite encyclopedia would be equally valid, as a tertiary source. But last but not least there's also Cite ODNB... and the blooming bot will keep following you around and changing it back! So whatever you're happier with.  ——Serial Number 54129  16:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * And regarding location, some of the refrences use publication_place. Do you mean I should unify them under location? Amir Ghandi (talk) 16:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Back tomorrow PM, UTC.  ——Serial Number 54129  20:00, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Just letting you know, I added identifier numbers to the missing articles; changed the Oxford sources to cite encyclopedia and added locations to for books. Two of the books had unidentifiable locations. Amir Ghandi (talk) 01:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Amir Ghandi. Just for the record, Worldcat is good for checking meta information, so for example and . Also, if you haven't all ready, it's worth installing Linghzi's references review script. It's how people find such ridiculously tiny things like missing locations and oclcs so quickly  :)    ——Serial Number 54129  14:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, added the last two locations. Amir Ghandi (talk) 15:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Here the FAC style nit pick, if that's the way you want it? ——Serial Number 54129 16:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Detailed review


 * Yep, go ahead. Amir Ghandi (talk) 17:22, 15 April 2024 (UTC)


 * By the way, ignore anything that's actually OK in American English, of course.  ——Serial Number 54129  17:25, 15 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Background
 * House of Valois-Burgundy stemmed > The House of Valois-Burgundy was begun with
 * France, who became the Duke of Burgundy in 1363 > France. Philip became the Duke of Burgundy in 1363
 * Louis II, Count of Flanders >link
 * Link 'Dower', but before you do,check to see whether the source refers to a dowry or her dower, two similar and related concepts but which are often conflated.
 * "His eldest" > "John the Fearless, PtB's eldest son" (avoid confusion with another Philip)
 * "Duke of Brabant through his marriage" > WP:SEAOFBLUE; suggest "[Duke of Brabant] through [his marriage to the Duchesss]", and lose the second "of Brabant"
 * "the youngest son, Philip" > "the youngest son, also Philip"
 * Merge the following sentences about his lack of resources into this paragraph, then re-break at the point he wants to strengthen his position in court. See below, though, for reworking that sentence first.
 * "his treasury became virtually empty" > "his treasury virtually emptied"
 * "Hence forcing John to borrow money" > "Henceforth John was forced to borrow money" (or even easier, "As a result...")
 * "and from his supporters, namely, the Italian bankers" > Needs clarifying. The Italian banks supported him financially (as they did most Europan monarchs; Edward III effectively bankrupted the Bardi family of Florence in 1340), but they weren't his supporters in the way we interpret support (military or political). Suggest "backed him".
 * "John was no doubt endeared by the idea of having a strong position in the French royal court, as his father had one before him" > "John was probably attracted by the possibility of strengthening his position in the French court, as his father had".
 * Also, specify which bankers.
 * "by the orders " > "on the order"
 * "in 23 November" > "on 23 November"
 * "23 November 1407. This murder started the Armagnac–Burgundian Civil War which lasted for twenty-eight years" > "23 November 1407, which started the twenty-eight-year-long Armagnac–Burgundian Civil War".
 * "John had the upper hand in this civil war" > repetition of civil war.
 * "however, in 1410 his opposition began circling around Charles, the son of the killed Louis, forming a strong faction against the Duke of Burgundy" > "however, by 1410 opposition—centred around Charles, the son of the dead Louis—became increasingly powerful".
 * Suggest widening the link as otherwise it looks like you are only linking to murder: "John was murdered.
 * "in 10 September" > "on"
 * "whilst John was excessively involved in the court's affairs" > "while John was preoccupied with French politics".
 * "royal court of Paris" > French politics. But can you go through and check for others? It's a rather formal stylization, and in any case, strictly wrong: he was never actually at court, it's a euphemism for government (as in, "The White House said" or "Downing Street said").
 * "instead, he chose to forge alliances outside of the Kingdom of France" > New sentence, "Instead, he chose to forge alliances elsewhere".Pausing there. I wonder if you'd consider putting it through the WP:GOCE? It would save a lot of time, and they do it for you :) (and me!)   ——Serial Number 54129  17:25, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't mind putting it on GOCE but it would take at least three months before it gets picked up. If the article absolutely needs copy editing, then I have no problems with the wait. Amir Ghandi (talk) 18:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, I went ahead and nominated for Copy editing. Amir Ghandi (talk) 17:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * All done. Amir Ghandi (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Query by Z1720
It has been over a month since the last comment. Can this be closed and nominated at WP:FAC? Z1720 (talk) 01:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * @Z1720 Still needs to go through copy editing, but yeah, it can be closed. Amir Ghandi (talk) 06:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Closure instructions are found at WP:PRG. Z1720 (talk) 03:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)