Wikipedia:Peer review/Darth Vader/archive3

Darth Vader
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because it has gone through changes after merging and we want it to be better than before.
 * Previous peer review

Thanks, Jhenderson  7 7 7  00:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments by Sjones23
 * The lead section may need to be expanded to three paragraphs and should be concisely detailed, including the reception for the characters itself. Also, please ensure that this article undergoes a thorough copyedit per User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a. Other than these issues I have explained, this article looks good. Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for your efforts here so far - unfortunately I think this needs a lot more work, before it would pass at WP:GAN. Here are some suggestions for improvement. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The disambig links tool on this page finds 4 dab links that need to be fixed.
 * There are seven (7) WP:Fair Use images in the article, which seems to me to violate WP:NFCC (the montage of Jake Lloyd, et al counts as three). The two biggest problems are the two images each of Hayden Christensen, and two each of Sebastian Shaw. The image of Jon Stewart wearing the mask also seems doubtful - what understanding does the reader gain that could not be conveyed by text alone?
 * I agree that the lead does not follow WP:LEAD. The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. Nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way
 * Another serious concern is a lack of references - My rule of thumb is that every quote, every statistic, every extraordinary claim and every paragraph needs a ref.
 * Some of the refs used lack sufficient information - one is just "Newsweek", which does not help the interested reader find the source very well. Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. cite web and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
 * I also am concerned that many of the sources used are not reliable sources and may not meet WP:RS or that better sources may exist. For example there is an interview with Jonathan WInzler about two books he wrote, but the books themselves are not used as sources.
 * A model article is useful for ideas and examples to follow. Emperor Palpatine is a FA and seems like it owuld be a pretty good model to follow. Look at how much more detail is given on things that are not just "this is what the character did in the movies". This needs more material like that that is written from an out-of-universe perspective. Homer Simpson and Bart Simpson are also FAs and may be good models as fictional charaters.

Have you investigated WikiProject Films/Resources for more sources, or asked at WP:FILM for help finding more sources? --Malkinann (talk) 21:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No I haven't yet. I will see what I can do when I have the time. And anyone else is free to do it too. − Jhenderson  7 7 7  14:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And I am going to use Palpatine and Jabba the Hutt as examples of how it should be done. − Jhenderson  7 7 7  14:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I recommend having "References" below "Notes" and using the Harvnb style. See Featured Article American Beauty (film) as an example that does this. A reader can follow the footnote, click on the author's name, and find the full reference. I think that the "References" section should include multi-page publications, so it appears Kasinki's book should be listed there. (If you cite one page from a book, we do not need a full reference, just the footnote.)
 * In addition, I think there could be further critical analysis of the character as a step toward comprehensiveness. Referring back to American Beauty, you can see a similar section for the film and the academic references cited for it. There are a couple of ways to look for such references. One is Google Scholar, and it helps to look for "Darth Vader" in article titles. This shows this as a potential reference. There may also be articles about Darth Vader without the eponymous title, but they're not readily apparent. You may need to mash up keywords to find relevant results. Also, if you use WorldCat.org, you can search for "Darth Vader" and filter for non-fiction or performing arts books. Books with "Darth Vader" in the book title or in a chapter title (where listed) will be displayed. 1, 2, and 3 are such examples. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 15:43, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest, Erik. That References/Notes recommendation sounds like something you can do. If so, go for it, if you feel like doing it! ;) − Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Done! :) Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 16:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks! :) − Jhenderson  7 7 7  19:46, 30 September 2010 (UTC)