Wikipedia:Peer review/Didsbury Campus/archive1

Didsbury Campus
I've listed this article for peer review because… I am hoping to take it to GA/FA before long.

Thanks, Aiken D 23:24, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Comments by Mike Christie
I'll add comments here as I go through the article. Since you're considering FA, I'll make this a fairly picky review, as if it were at FAC. I'll make minor copyedits myself; please revert if I screw anything up. That's it for a first pass. I'll be happy to take another look after these are addressed, if you want me to. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:56, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Suggest linking or explaining "listed" in the lead; few readers outside the UK will understand what it means.
 * It's not clear what "the site dates from" refers to; not the first house, since that comes later.
 * Clarified.
 * Estates in the past were known as parks; are "large estate" and "deer park" really two different things?
 * Clarified.
 * I think this got missed? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:30, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Fixed now I think. Aiken D 21:23, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there a plan of the building layouts for any period? That would really help the reader to understand the sequence of building as they read the text.
 * There are links to present-day maps in the references, which I've used to source the most recent info on the rooms. As for other plans, there are none publicly available as far as I have found. There is a map of the site in one of the books, though this would of course be copyrighted.
 * That's a pity. If any of the maps are simple line drawings that could be easily copied, that would be good, but it's not necessary. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:30, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "70,000 new teachers would be needed, almost ten times as many as before the war": I'm not sure what this is saying. So before the war 7,000 new teachers were needed?  Per year?  Or is 70,000 a one-time bump in the number?
 * Clarified.
 * This is clearer now but the number is so surprising that I had to go do some googling as a sanity check. Assuming that I have interpreted it correctly, how about this more explicit version: " Before the war, about 7,000 new teachers had been hired annually, but with the raising of the school leaving age following the 1944 Education Act, it was estimated that ten times that many -- about 70,000 new teachers -- would be needed each year." Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:30, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Done this and added some links. Aiken D 21:23, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like this was missed? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "staffed by seconded lecturers with students from the national service": this is a bit compressed; can you clarify?
 * Clarified.
 * Is there a possible link target for Board of Education? And for the Ministries mentioned?  You might want to go through with an eye to adding more links; perhaps Lord and Lady Simon of Wythenshawe, for example; Cheshire; Robbins Committee, and probably more.
 * Working on these.
 * The paragraph starting "Over the next two decades" has a very long list-like sentence. If this can't be made to read more smoothly, it might be just as well to convert it to a list or a table.
 * I've changed to a list, but it's not really very good. There's little info on Behrens building in the sources, not even a date of opening as far as I can see, so its list entry looks odd compared to the rest.
 * I had a go at redoing this, making it more listy and cutting some prose. I think that looks better, but revert if you don't like the way it looks.  I'd also suggest putting all bundling all those citations into one; I don't know how one does that with sfn, but I assume it's possible. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:40, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks ok. Aiken D 21:23, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "the Old Social Room, which originated during World War II": I don't know what "originated" means here.
 * "and later PhDs": can a date be given?
 * No info in sources.
 * The fact that the Bachelor of Education degree was awarded by the University of Manchester is given twice, once in the history section and once in the academics section. The latter is probably the better place for it.
 * What is ICT teaching?
 * Added a link.
 * "The amount of time in schools varied across the years and across courses, with the PGCE being 24 weeks in total" Does this mean that a student taking the PGCE would spend 24 weeks in schools? It doesn't quite say that.
 * Clarified.
 * "always played a strong role internationally" is a bit vague and promotional-sounding. Perhaps "From the beginning, Didsbury encouraged connections to educational institutions in other countries"?
 * "and the UK's joining into the European Economic Community embedded this even further": a bit clumsy; how about "and these relationships were strengthened when the UK joined the EEC"?
 * "In 2008, it was extended to include Bridgewater State College in the United States, and Hong Kong Institute of Education, despite not being in Europe": why "despite not being in Europe"? What difference does that make?
 * Erasmus is a European exchange programme, so those two countries normally would not take part.
 * OK -- how about making that clearer on first mention? E.g. "The Erasmus Programme, a European Union programme set up in 1987 to allow staff and students to spend ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:54, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "and the UK's joining into the European Economic Community embedded this even further": a bit clumsy; how about "and these relationships were strengthened when the UK joined the EEC"?
 * "In 2008, it was extended to include Bridgewater State College in the United States, and Hong Kong Institute of Education, despite not being in Europe": why "despite not being in Europe"? What difference does that make?
 * Erasmus is a European exchange programme, so those two countries normally would not take part.
 * OK -- how about making that clearer on first mention? E.g. "The Erasmus Programme, a European Union programme set up in 1987 to allow staff and students to spend ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:54, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * OK -- how about making that clearer on first mention? E.g. "The Erasmus Programme, a European Union programme set up in 1987 to allow staff and students to spend ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:54, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Any more feedback would of course be gratefully received. Aiken D 18:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I've struck most points above and added a couple of notes. I'll try to get a fresh pass done in the next day or so. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:54, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Second pass through. That does it for a second pass. I can't speak to completeness, but I think the article is in good shape and should pass GA fairly easily. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You might consider adding BrEng to the talk page.
 * On reading through again, it strikes me that if the article is really about the School of Education, it also ought to cover its current incarnation at Birley Fields -- or is that considered a new institution? If the article is just about the site, then it should have more details about the events prior to 1946, if any details are available, and the title of the article would have to change.  If it's just about the School during 1946-2014, then the title should reflect that too.
 * I've renamed the article to Didsbury Campus as I think that covers all aspects well. Unfortunately I've pretty much exhausted the sources I've found on details prior to 1946. Aiken D 21:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Good solution. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "There was some uncertainty about what was to become of the college once the emergency scheme had ended; the Methodists who still owned the building had moved their business to Bristol, and also named it Didsbury. The University of Manchester had expressed an interest in using the site as student accommodation, and the Methodists also wished to set up a training college": how about "There was some uncertainty about what was to become of the college once the emergency scheme had ended.  The University of Manchester had expressed an interest in using the site as student accommodation, but the Methodists who still owned the building wished to set up a training college."  I don't think we need the information about the rest of the Methodists business; it's just a distraction in this sentence.
 * I've kept the part about them moving away, because it explains why it became vacant. Aiken D 21:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "In 1963, Didsbury Teacher Training College was renamed to Didsbury College of Education": this is the first mention of what seems to be the original title, "Didsbury Teacher Training College". I think this should be mentioned earlier.
 * Added a bit earlier, though I'm sure it's not worded very well. Aiken D 21:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Tweaked it a bit. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "As a result of becoming a university, Didsbury was granted an annual research fund of £375,000": suggest "As part of a university..." since Didsbury itself did not become a university.
 * Can we get a link for "national league tables"?
 * "bringing the School of Health, Psychology and Social Care and the Institute of Education onto one site": I think this means bringing both schools to the existing Didsbury site; is that correct? If so I would make that clearer.
 * It does mean that, but not sure how to make it clearer. Aiken D 21:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I had a go at this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "The elliptical spiral staircase in the entrance hall": the caption should say which building this is from.
 * "The Birley Building was a four-storey building which contained the refectory and kitchen, a conference centre, and numerous classrooms, including art and ceramic studios and computer suites. The Birley Building was attached directly to the library, which was modernised in 2005, and spread over three floors."  The library spread over three floors?  Presumably before the modernization as well, so this is an odd sequence of clauses.
 * I had a go at this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:22, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "The elliptical spiral staircase in the entrance hall": the caption should say which building this is from.
 * "The Birley Building was a four-storey building which contained the refectory and kitchen, a conference centre, and numerous classrooms, including art and ceramic studios and computer suites. The Birley Building was attached directly to the library, which was modernised in 2005, and spread over three floors."  The library spread over three floors?  Presumably before the modernization as well, so this is an odd sequence of clauses.
 * "The Birley Building was a four-storey building which contained the refectory and kitchen, a conference centre, and numerous classrooms, including art and ceramic studios and computer suites. The Birley Building was attached directly to the library, which was modernised in 2005, and spread over three floors."  The library spread over three floors?  Presumably before the modernization as well, so this is an odd sequence of clauses.