Wikipedia:Peer review/Enthiran/archive1

Enthiran
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because me and Kailash29792 would like to take it to FA. This is my first attempt at a FA and second time for Kailash29792.

Thanks, — Ssven2  speak 2 me 03:50, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Kailash29792
Though I am a key contributor to this article (and have gained your permission to be its FAC co-nominator), there are some things that I would like to see fulfilled, though I can't do them: Kailash29792 (talk) 07:23, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Behindwoods says that the film was retitled to avoid paying taxes, but Rediff says, "The title wasn't intended to get tax-exemption but to honour the Government of Tamil Nadu's commitment to patronise films with Tamil titles". Please do something about this.
 * Try expanding on the Enthiran/Frankenstein similarities; the sources are already listed.
 * Sudhish Kamath's quote in "Themes" can use some paraphrasing, but peacock/POV terms should not be un-quoted.
 * There is passive voice in many places. Reduce that.
 * In this interview, Banu says "For the negative robot look, we went for a red tone and spiked the hair like comicbook villains". In this she says "I wanted a red tone for the negative Chitti and got spiked hair, stiff hair with no movement and a white patch. Chitti’s hair would move and had a texture like human hair." I guess she means the same look in both the interviews, though I interpreted the TOI one as referring to Chitti's look in "Arima Arima". Kailash29792 (talk) 08:06, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You are right about "Arima Arima" there. He sports the red look in that song. As for the passive voice, can you specifically mention a few places where it is present so that I may reduce them? Can you also look for a wikilink of "Oakley beard"? —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 08:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Find any relevant link in this as I myself am not sure which to link it to. And I finally think that in both the interviews, Banu's reference to the bad Chitti's look is the white-streaked wig look (silver, according to her interview with Sify), not the "Arima" wala. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:28, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Another suggestion about the beard would be to use the wikipedia article. In that, there are mentions of different beard styles. If we find a style similar to that of Rajinikanth's, we can wikilink it. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 08:33, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ You have added a footnote about it yourself, Kailash29792. Thanks. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Skr15081997
✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 08:50, 16 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ I removed that portion. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ added "after he approached Shankar. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ It is italicised now and not linked. —  Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Included Rajinikanth's image. —  Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:41, 13 February 2015 (UTC) None of the film's cast and crew members could be reached for comment at that time as they did not want to make it a big issue. —  Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:20, 16 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Linked. —  Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "Awards and nominations" can be expanded to include more details.
 * Probably expand upon the reasons Media Dreams faced a crisis.
 * Was Manoj Bharathiraja made an assistant director just because of his father?
 * No need to link Sivaji in the looks section. It's already linked in "Origin".
 * It would be good if a few images of actors are also included.
 * In the "Plagiarism allegations" section adding a few comments from the director or the film crew members will be useful.
 * Link "Kilimanjaro" in the "Character looks" section.
 * Why talk about marketing after the "Release" section?
 * I actually included it as a sub-section. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Ananda Vikatan, gave it only 45 out of 100. They must have included negative comments. These should be added to give a balanced POV.
 * Shailendra, Ananda Vikatan always gives between 40 to 55 for good films and in rare cases (expectionally good films) they give above 55 to 65. For not so good films, they give 35-40, and for bad films, below 35. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * In the 4th citation add Sun TV and Bombay Stock Exchange.
 * Which 4th citation? — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sun Network Report Fn#202 in the current version.--Skr15081997 (talk) 10:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ — Ssven2  speak 2 me 11:35, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I have just written the headings as they are. So, I felt that sticking to as they are written would be best. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 07:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Removed. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC) I tried to add them but the links to all four books do not provide the locations. So, I prefer to do it without locations. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 07:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC) Will do so after the PR. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 05:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Avoid using all caps in the citations.
 * I think Category:Fictional characters who can move at superhuman speeds should be removed as this article is about the film.
 * Though not necessary, adding locations to the book citations is an idea worth considering.
 * The article should be copy-edited to a give a professional touch to its prose.
 * A link to Box Office Mojo can be added in the "External links" section.
 * Many readers would not be aware of IIM-A. We can use the full form for their help.
 * I think we can have a template for this film and include the accolades list, soundtrack, all the notable songs and the android. This topic has potential to be a Featured Topic.
 * Good suggestion, but as of now, FA first. —  Ssven2  speak 2 me 09:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

--Skr15081997 (talk) 12:40, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from the Doctor
The only major issue I see at present is the length. It'll definitely needs to be substantially cut before FAC. Perhaps could do a prose count and recommend an ideal length. What I'd do Sven is add the material you were considering to ensure it's fully researched as well as possible and then aim to chop it down. Well, it was 166kb, now 146 which is a lot better of course but still rather long. Crisco should have a target for you I think.♦ Dr. Blofeld  14:43, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley
That's all from me. –  Tim riley  talk    09:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I see Doctor B comments on the length of the article, and I agree that getting on for 7,000 words seems excessive for one film. Given the length it is pretty readable, but the pruning shears could be used to good effect.
 * There's a large sprinking of WP:OVERLINK from which the blue links should be removed: "animation", "Austria", "background music", "Brazil" (linked twice), "gatecrash", "giant", "graphics", "Hanoi", "Hong Kong", "Japan", "landfill", "London", "Malaysia" (linked twice), "New Zealand", "Peru", "Rio de Janeiro", "soundtrack album", "textbook", "United Kingdom" (linked three times), "United States", "Vienna", and "Vietnam".
 * There are also too many duplicate links: "A R Rahman", "Ayngaran International", "Behindwoods.com", "Bollywood", "Chennai" (two duplicates), "Karnataka", "Kerala", "Mumbai", "sic" (two duplicates), "Sun Pictures", "Sun TV Network", "Tamil Nadu" (three duplicates), "Telugu", and "visual effects".
 * "in order to"– appears five times, and is always woolly and unnecessary. A plain "to" does the same job quicker and better.
 * "neighborhood"– sudden lapse into American spelling.
 * "a roller-costar ride"– is in a quotation, and so I didn't feel I could correct it to "roller-coaster"; you may like to check the source.

All of your comments have been resolved. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 08:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from FrB.TG

 * I suggest to add a bit about the characters of the film in the Cast section.
 * Nope, all that goes in the cast section is the cast list. Any info on the characters/actors goes in "casting". Kailash29792 (talk) 19:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 05:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 05:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC) Actually, the "the" signifies newspapers. But it's ✅. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 05:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ALT needed for the two images.
 * In some places, in India section, you have a space after ₹; otherwise not.
 * "According to a February 2014 report by the Hindustan Times, the film has grossed INR2.56 billion". Why have you "the" before Hindustan Times, or is it that I am missing something. If "the" is the part of its title, it should be italicized and of course "t" should be capitalized.
 * "was more of an " 'English' film rather.." Why space after quotation mark (")?
 * Quote within quote. What to do for this? Kailash29792 (talk) 19:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Removed the space. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 07:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

✅ as requested. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 05:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In the plot section "(I started thinking.)" => "(I started thinking)."

Looks good but needs some minor fixes. -- FrankBoy (Buzz) 19:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Titodutta
Firstly I have watched this film several times. Anyway Your comments have been resolved. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 10:19, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chitti also uses Sana's textbook to successfully handle the birth of Latha, Sana's sister's child — This is confusing. Directly saying/clearifying "Latha's child" could be better.
 * It was claimed in August 2010 that Sun Pictures  — who claimed?

Comments from Bollyjeff
I was involved in getting this article de-listed from GA some years back. The main reason was instability due to the constant vandalism of the budget and earnings figures. I had hoped that it would be setttled by now, but I just did a quick check, and found the following edits of the same kind that were reverted in just the last 3 weeks:, , , ,. Notice that the figures added are different in all five cases. While the article may look better overall now than it did back then, stability is still an issue. Something has to be done to convince editors to leave these figures alone. BollyJeff &#124;  talk  21:50, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You're right. It is best if the article is protected such that only autoconfirmed users can use it. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 04:36, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. The article is Semi-protected for a week. — Ssven2  speak 2 me 05:04, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That is not exactly what I meant; it's only temporary. In the paragraph that begins "Although exact figures for the film's final box office earnings are not available...", there used to be some text about the higher estimates, which I do not see anymore. It might be useful to include some of those, and explain using other sources as to why they are not accurate. Then, since the infobox sees most of the vandalism, probably you should include the most accurate figures there, maybe with a range, say 2.10 to 2.56 billion, with sources and a 'do not disturb' note. Maybe is's time to put the budget in the infobox as well, it it's not disputed, otherwise leave it out. BollyJeff  &#124;  talk  13:18, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ removed the BO gross and Budget from infobox. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Bede735
That is the release date in London. I just stated the time duration is different from different sources. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Infobox – Per Template:Infobox film, "Separate multiple entries using Plain list." Also, the BBFC gives the run time as 175 and the release date as 11 October 2010. I do not know if this is correct, but see my comments for the release section.
 * Lead – The lead is well-written and summarizes the article nicely. One suggestion. The second sentence is a little awkward. Maybe split it into two: "The film features Rajinikanth in dual roles, as a scientist and an android, and Aishwarya Rai Bachchan as the scientist's girlfriend. Danny Denzongpa, Santhanam, Karunas and Devadarshini play supporting roles."
 * Plot – Well-written and within the 700-word guidance.


 * Cast – Good use of the quote box.

✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ written "influenced by". — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Origin – Consider moving this sentence to the Casting section, first sentence, first paragraph: "In January 2008, Rajinikanth was formally engaged to work on the project.[19] Shankar rewrote the original script, which he had written bearing Haasan in mind, to suit Rajinikanth's acting style.[5] Rajinikanth was paid INR450 million for acting in the film.[20] Aishwarya Rai Bachchan was Shankar's original ..."
 * Technical crew – This section mixes pre-production ("was signed up") and production ("was done by") syntax. I recommend the latter: "A. R. Rahman composed the film's soundtrack and background score,[21] while Vairamuthu, P. Vijay and Madhan Karky wrote the lyrics for the songs ..."
 * Character looks – Fine, although consider renaming the section "Costume design", the more common term for this.
 * Principal photography – Maybe combine the first three sentences to read: "Shankar required an enormous amount of studio floor space for Sabu Cyril's sets, and after rejecting Ramoji Film City for technical reasons, Maran set up within six months three gleaming air-conditioned studio floors on land in Perungudi owned by Sun Network.[66]"
 * Song sequence – Consider removing the sentence, "On 22 September 2008, six stills featuring Rajinikanth and Rai in "Kilimanjaro" were leaked onto the internet.[88]", and combine paragraphs one and two. The sentence is not necessary.
 * Visual effects – Consider condensing the first two sentences to, "In December 2007, Srinivas Mohan became the film's visual effects supervisor, and requested Shankar to adjust the filming schedules to allow for six additional months for pre-production.[96]
 * Themes and influences – Does the third paragraph present a theme or influence? If so, maybe state that in the lead sentence of the paragraph.
 * Music – Fine.

✅ as asked. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ What a useful suggestion. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ I have added a reference that all allegations were proved to be false. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 06:29, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Release – I suggest rewording to, "Enthiran was initially scheduled for release on 24 September 2010, but was postponed due to the court verdict regarding the Babri Masjid demolition case.[121] The film was released on 1 October 2010 in 3000 theatres and in three languages ..." Also, BBFC lists the start date as 11 October. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I'm just bringing it to your attention. The citation you provide for the "1 October" date from an article indicating "the film will be released on October 1, 2010". Maybe find a better citation that records the release date after the fact.
 * Distribution – Consider removing the first paragraph as peripheral to the subject, or maybe condense it to a note: "In August 2010, Telugu producer Chadalavada Srinivasa Rao claimed to have purchased the rights for the Telugu dubbed version Robo for INR270 million, but the claim was denied by Sun Pictures.[143] After an initial unsuccessful attempt to take legal action on Sun Pictures, Rao lodged a complaint with the Andhra Pradesh Film Chamber of Commerce against Sun Pictures, claiming that they had been "defaming and cheating" him. After finally acknowledging Rao's purchase, Sun Pictures filed a police complaint initiating a formal investigation, which led to the arrest of two individuals for illegally trying to sell the film distribution rights.[145]"
 * Plagiarism allegations – This section could be condensed to one paragraph. Was there any resolution to any of these allegations? If not, I would include that in the paragraph. Maybe something like, "Four separate allegations of plagiarism were made against the film. In August 2010, Indian author Vijayarke claimed that Enthiran'​s story was similar to that of his 2002 science fiction novel, Man Robot, and demanded a credit.[151][152] Tamil novelist, Aarur Thamizhnadan, also made a complaint with the Chennai Metropolitan Police against the filmmakers, stating that they plagiarised his 1996 novel Jugiba.[152][153] Thamizhnadan demanded INR 10 million from the director and producers for damages.[155] Science fiction writer P. S. Arnica Nasar also filed a case with the Chennai Police stating that the filmmaker had "stolen" the central plot from Robot Thozhirsalai, a novel Nasar had published in 1995.[152][156] Finally, M. V. Vijay Kumar, a professor of the New Horizon College of Engineering, issued a legal notice stating that the filmmakers used technical aspects based on his thesis and research papers.[157] As of 2015, none of these allegations has been resolved."
 * But in the article it says "content source: Wiki", implying WP:MIRROR. What do we do, even though the source is reliable? Kailash29792 (talk) 07:49, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Even though the content is from wiki, the status part is done by the website. That's why I included it. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:55, 21 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Home media – Fine.

✅ trimmed. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Critical reception – Consider ways of trimming this section by a few paragraphs, either by editing down each review, or providing fewer reviews.
 * Awards and nominations – Fine.

The list is an official one and not usergenerated. If it were then shouldn't there not be articles mentioning about it? — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 07:08, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Legacy – Should IMDb be used in this context? See WP:USERGENERATED
 * Final comments – Using the FA criteria, I think this article is well-written, comprehensive, well-researched, neutral, stable, follows the style guidelines, has appropriate structure, has consistent citations, and uses images where appropriate. Regarding the article length, I agree with the Doctor and Tim riley. I see you've been editing the article down recently, but consider doing a tighter edit, especially the Critical reception section. The article, for the most part, stays focused on the main topic. I hope these comments help. Regards, Bede735 (talk) 17:47, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from SchroCat
I will do it after the PR. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:31, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Kailash29792 has added a sourced footnote about it. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as requested. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC) I have merged the two paragraphs into one and removed "In December 2009". — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ as requested. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Sorted. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC) ✅ Removed Overlinks. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Needs a bit more of a copy edit to tighten the prose in a few places, but in pretty good shape overall
 * Costume: I have no idea what an "Oakley beard" is – if there is no link to the term, then strike "Oakley" because it only raises questions
 * Principal photography: "enormous amount": "enormous" depends on ones viewpoint, so it may be worth either putting a figure to it, or a sense of measure, such as "twice as much space as their last film/average film", etc
 * There are a few stubby paragraphs here that could be worked together more seamlessly. Having the middle two stubby paras beginning "In December 2008/9" adds to that effect
 * The "For the crane shots" para seems to come after filming was wrapped, so may be worth re-jigging so that the section ends when the filming does
 * You have a couple of duplicate titles/sub titles in there which need to be sorted – these are India and Overseas
 * Two bits over overlinking: Rediff.com, Japan

I hope these help. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 11:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Kailash29792, Skr15081997, Dr. Blofeld, Tim riley, Frankboy, Titodutta, Bollyjeff, Bede735, SchroCat for your comments. Now the article is moving to FAC. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me '' 15:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Best wishes from a well-wisher of yours. -- FrankBoy (Buzz) 16:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)