Wikipedia:Peer review/Fidel Castro/archive1

Fidel Castro
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because it has undergone a major overhaul in recent years, and now offers a cohesive, predominantly well-referenced overview of one of the most significant political figures of the latter 20th century. I'd be really grateful if some of my fellow editors could give me their opinions on it; are there any areas that break the NPOV rule, for instance, or sections with irrelevant information. Any tips that will help bring it up to the level where it would warrant a GA review ?

Thanks, Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:40, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Brief comment: A very important article. I am somewhat dumbstruck by its length (c. 22,000 words) and even more by the "needs expansion" tags on two of the sections. I can't help feeling that, if all this content (and more) is really necessary, then the article is in need of subdivision. Another thing that surprises me is that the article has been around for ages (DYK in 2004) yet does not seem ever to have been formally reviewed, despite a number of Wikiprojects claiming an interest. The sheer length is likely to deter all but the most committed reviewers; I will, however, try to compile some general comments over the next couple of days. Brianboulton (talk) 00:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC) It's full of propaganda....for example, Hugo Chavez was never a "General" in the Venezuelan Army! Comment yes, much too large. Just made an edit that changes two characters. Didn't time the save, but it took at least 10 or 15 seconds. Loading the page takes a bit less time. Needs to be trimmed/split off. GlitchCraft (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments:

I've read the first few sections, and in my view it would be quite easy to reduce the text without significant effect on the content. Below are a few suggestions that you might consider taking up:
 * I have copyedited the lead into a more summarised form, reducing it from 650 words to 490. I have posted this revised version, though of cours you are at liberty to amend it or even restore the original, should you so wish.
 * There seems to be plenty of scope for similiar reduction in the "Childhood and education: 1926–1945" section. Suggestions:
 * Image captions should not become essays. Use footnotes for ancillary information.
 * The first two paragraphs are all about Castro's father. While a little family background is OK if length permits, I'd say in this case that you have to be more parsimonious with extraneous detail, and you should aim to reduce these paragraphs by about a half.
 * Some clunky sentences can easily be shortened without loss of meaning. For example: "Castro was Lina's third child, being born at his father's farm on August 13, 1926, and was given his mother's surname of Ruz rather than his father's because he had been born out of wedlock, something that carried a particular social stigma at the time" becomes "Castro was Lina's third child, born out of wedlock at Ángel's farm on August 13, 1926.  Because of the stigma of illegitimacy, he was given his mother's surname of Ruz rather than his father's name".
 * And again: "Although he was from a prosperous background, with his father's business proving ever more profitable, his father ensured that he grew up alongside the children of the farm's workforce, many of whom were Haitian economic migrants of African descent, something that Castro would later relate prevented him from absorbing "bourgeois culture" at an early age" could become: "Although Ángel's business ventures prospered, he ensured that Castro grew up alongside the children of the farm's workforce, many of whom were Haitian economic migrants of African descent. This experience, Castro later related, prevented him from absorbing "bourgeois culture" at an early age."
 * Besides these there are numerous examples of use of wordy phrases where a single or couple of words would do. For esample "and it was here that" can become "where"; "poor economic situation" → "poverty"; "gave up his faith in" → "rejected"; "begin attending" → "attended" – and I am sure many more, in this section and throughout the article.
 * The list of Castro's sporting interests is unnecessary.


 * "University and early political activism: 1945–1947". A few samples:
 * " Instead, it was to the UIR that he grew closest to, although whether he ever became a member or not has remained unknown" → "He grew close to the UIR, without for certain becoming a member".
 * "Various accusations would arise in later years alleging that Castro carried out gang-related assassination attempts at this time..." → "In later years Castro was accused of attempting gang-related assassinations..."
 * Remove WP:WEASEL words such as "fervently"

I am sure that if you apply the principle of economy of phrasing throughout the article, you could lose uo to 2000 words without any loss of content. The trouble is, that would still leave 20,000 words, way longer than the current longest Featured Article, and 50% longer than Nikita Khruschev. This points towards another option, that of making more use of exisiting subarticles. For example, your "Cuban Revolution" section links to a "main article" of that name. However, this "main article" is considerably less than half the length of your section (2400 words, against 5400). Surely this is wrong? It seems that much of your content could be absorbed into the main article, leaving a thousand or so words of summary in the Castro biography – as appears to be the case with the Cuban Missile Crisis section.

I don't have time at the moment to take these thoughts further, but please feel free to contact me for further discussion of ideas about how to implement the suggested changes, or alternative suggestions. Brianboulton (talk) 20:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments. Just some copyediting notes: - Dank (push to talk)
 * Replace "ly-" by "ly" throughout. See WP:HYPHEN.
 * "With his health failing": Some style guides recommend rewriting most instances of with + a noun + -ing; WP:PLUSING may be helpful. "In failing health" or "As his health was failing"
 * "Vice-President Raúl Castro, who assumed the full presidency in 2008. ... Castro is a controversial": Not sure about this; it seems clear enough to me, but I'm wondering if some readers will think you mean Raúl.
 * "rural Galicia, Northwest Spain": rural Galicia in northwest Spain.
 * "however it remained only partially independent": remaining only partially independent
 * "Ángel Castro decided to migrate there permanently in search of employment. Doing so, he undertook": Assuming the decision itself wasn't that noteworthy: "Ángel Castro migrated there permanently in search of employment. He undertook"
 * "being born at his father's farm": born at his father's farm
 * "born out of wedlock, something that carried a particular social stigma at the time": I'm left wondering how the stigma was different than at any other time.
 * "with his father's business proving": WP:PLUSING
 * "his father ensured that he grew up alongside the children ... something that Castro would later relate ...": "ensured" and "something" aren't the best choices here; they make me wonder how he ensured it. "his father saw that he ..." might be better, or just say what his father did.
 * "Aged eight, Castro was then baptized": At age eight, Castro was baptized [it's a little better to avoid the repetition of "aged"]
 * "to playing sport": to sports
 * "table tennis, athletics, basketball": table tennis, basketball
 * I got down to University and early political activism: 1945–1947. - Dank (push to talk) 02:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

These are some great, constructive comments here guys, so thanks so much for providing me with them; will begin to act on them when I get the chance, in the next week or two. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:02, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've begun editing down the length of the page, starting from the beginning. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2012 (UTC)