Wikipedia:Peer review/Footprints in the Sand (song)/archive2

Footprints in the Sand (song)
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because the last time I decided to not continue with its GAN process because I had not antivirus and I didn't want to take risks. Now, I'd like to have it at GAN again, but maybe I still needing some help with it before I add a GAN. Thanks, Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  03:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Previous peer review


 * Comments from Jappalang

Background
 * "'Footprints in the Sand' was written by Simon Cowell, David Kreuger, Per Magnusson and Richard Page, and produced by Steve Mac in 2007 at Rokstone Studios, London, England."
 * By grouping the two activities (writing and producing) in a single sentence like this, it is asserted that they wrote and produced the song at Rokstone, which contradicts the idea (in the lede and later) that the song was written in Page's home.
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "'Footprints in the Sand' was composed using common time in the key of A♭ major with a larghetto tempo of sixty beats per minute, with Lewis' vocals spanning from the low note of E♭3 to the high note of G♯5."
 * I would suggest eliminating the "with ... gerund", as in "'Footprints in the Sand' was composed using common time in the key of A♭ major with a larghetto tempo of sixty beats per minute; Lewis' vocals spanned from the low note of E♭3 to the high note of G♯5."
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "The song follows a basic sequence of A♭5–A♭5/B♭–Fm7–E♭ in the verses and A♭–B♭–B♭m–Fm–G♭–D♭ in the chorus as its chord progression."
 * I am not too certain if this sentence and its predecessor goes too deeply into the technical area for the general reader. My fear is that they might read these sentences at asuch an early point in the article and assume the rest of the article is of the same, thus abandoning further reading.  Can the article be restructured to move these sentences into a later part (exchanging the production details of the second paragraph with them could be an improvement in my view)?
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Release and promotion
 * "... for their 2008 emision."
 * What is "emision"?
 * Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Lewis sings the song on stage in front of the people who assisted to the Sports Relief event."
 * I do not quite fathom the entire sentence. Lewis sings the song to the Sports Relief event (would she not be singing at the event instead of to?) in front of people who assisted (assisted what?).
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "She was assisted by musicians that played violas, violins, and a piano, ..."
 * I am not too certain their role should be categorised as "assisted". The musicians are as much a part of the entire performance as Lewis and the Tuff Session Singers.
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "While she sang, images of sadness and desperation were shown to the public."
 * Might as well state what sort of images rather than vaguely describing them as "of sadness and desperation" unless that is what the source is saying (in which case, quotation marks please).
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "... became picures of happiness."
 * Typo ("picures"); also see above about images of emotions.
 * Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Lewis performed the song live ..., with a special ice dance routine performed by Torvill and Dean."
 * This does not right to me (makes it sound as if she is also in the dance routine)... "Lewis performed the song live ...; her song accompanied Torvill and Dean's ice dance routine."
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "It was filmed in Johannesburg, South Africa, and was directed in London by British director Sophie Muller back-to-back with the video for "Better in Time"."
 * This does not make sense to me; the video was filmed without its director at the scene (South Africa)?
 * , it was taken from BiT article Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "... the video begins to show images about happiness and hope."
 * I understand about the inherent assumption of the media as the source for a summary, but "happiness and hope" are subjective and would need a secondary source (similar again to the images of emotion concern as raised above). Alternatively, just state plainly examples of what those images are.
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Welsh singer Lucie Jones sang "Footprints in the Sand" on the British singing competition programme The X Factor. She performed it on the first show of its sixth edition (2009)."
 * Did she really perform it to promote this song? Was she tasked to promote it?  If not, it would seem a trivial point and should not be here.  Alternatively, did she choose to sing it because it had some special significance (in that case, a marginal reasoning could be had to include it somewhere in Reception).
 * Temporarely removed, at its previous GAN it was noted that its own section is not enough. Also, that is all the information I could find of that performance. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Critical response
 * Looks like a quote farm. Is there anything of substance in the comments the reviewers made about the song?  Why it was good or bad and such?
 * I've seen articles with more quote farms than this. There are not many quotes as I'm reading. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Chart performance
 * "Footprints in the Sand" had an average performance on European countries, reaching position seventy-three on the European Hot 100 Singles.
 * Does 73rd really qualifies as average? That would be one's judgment and it certainly is not stated as such by the source.
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "After selling 40,476 copies, and being beaten to the number one spot by Duffy's song "Mercy", it soared to its peak position at number two on 22 March 2008, the same week "Footprints in the Sand" debuted in the top forty."
 * This sentence somehow sounds awkward to me. "Beaten to number one, it soared to its peak position at number two"?  If it was "beaten to number one", then the obvious conclusion is that it was "number two".  I think it unnecessary to bring in "Footprints in the Sand"'s own chart position here (should it not be in the earlier paragraph if it is of import)?  I also think it needless to mention Duffy's song here; the article is after all about Lewis's rendition.  Furthermore, "soared" carries a promotional tone, veering towards biasness.  I would suggest rephrasing it as "The record sold 40,476 copies.  Its chart position peaked at number two on 22 March 2008."
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "With this it became the third single by Lewis to reach the top five in the UK."
 * Sounds stilted to me. Suggest, "It was Lewis's third single to reach the top five in the UK."
 * ✅ Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Sources
 * As far as I understand it, About.com is not a reliable site; some of its writers are, however, well-respected experts by the industry on the topics. So what makes Bill Lamb such an expert (About.com's own claims are to be disregarded).
 * Removed. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * What makes iafrica.com a reliable source per Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Dispatches and Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches?
 * according to their site (that's why I added it) they are "South Africa's most established portal and one of the biggest web brands with one of the largest, loyal user bases in the country". We may not see it as "reliable", but you have to be in an African perspective. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Images
 * File:Better in Time & Footprints in the Sand.jpg's purpose of use is incorrect; an image cannot "represent the single [song] in question." See how movie posters are handled, e.g. File:Conan the Barbarian by Renato Casaro.jpg and File:S05-The Final Frontier-Poster art.png.  Try to identify the copyright holder of the image as well.
 * ✅ I didn't work on it. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

-- Jappalang (talk) 09:30, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments from Sanders11


 * I think you need to work out a different structure for the article. The release and promotion section contains release info, a live performance, more release info, a different live performance, music video and then a cover. I would move the release info to the end of Background, maybe make a seperate Composition section (with audio file?), Crit response, Chart perform, Music vid and then a Live performance section with the cover version in that. I know that gives a lot of small sections but I moved it about and previewed it and thought it looked fine.


 * I believe it charted in Switzerland following a performance on a tv talent show, would be good to add that if you can find a source (presuming I'm not talking rubbish!).
 * I found information about Julia, so I've added it (I'll try to find what you said). Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  01:49, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Was it definitely released as a double A side in Germany? I looked at the sources and am struggling to see where that info came from. Surely the German certification would be for BIT/FITS like the UK one is, rather than just for BIT?
 * BIT/FITS was released as a double A-side, but BiT was also released alone, that's why BiT was certified and not FitS. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  01:49, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The way the certification is just now could be interpreted as FITS alone being silver when it is not, you need to make it clear in the table that it is BIT/FITS that is certified silver.
 * Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to get an image of Leona that is more related to the topic? I would assume there's no free image of a FITS performance since she only performed it a couple of times, but maybe one of her in Africa or doing some kind of Sport Relief activity? Or even a picture of her performing BIT, just so it is a little bit more related rather than being purely decorative.
 * I don't know which section you are reffering to, but I'll comment in general. Lewis, as you said, almost never performed the song live, so it would be practically impossible to have one. Also, as far as I remember, there are no images from BiT at Commons. About the music video, it fails WP:NFCC, and as today there are not free images from South Africa with Lewis on them. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "It remained on the Irish Singles Chart for one week, debuting and peaking at number fifty,[38] while on the Swiss Singles Chart, it made the same on 15 November 2009, but at thirty-five and staying there three weeks" - made the same? This needs clarified; I would split the sentence since they happened a year and a half apart.
 * Clarified. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  02:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "The single debuted in the German charts on 16 June 2008 at number five. Although it fell out the top ten the following week, it managed to reach the top five in the week ending 27 July 2010, and reached its peak position at number two in subsequent days" - a bit confusing. I would remove the return to the top five part and just get straight to the peak position, and date the peak position rather than saying subsequent days.
 * Clarified. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  02:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I would name the subsection "Charts" "Weekly charts" or something similar so the section isn't immediately followed by a subsection with the same name.
 * Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

- Sanders11 (talk) 12:26, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a mistake in the release table, Switzerland's release format is in the label column.
 * Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  00:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)