Wikipedia:Peer review/For the Night/archive1

For the Night


I've listed this article for peer review because I want to take it to FAC. It's mostly just the background and critical reception that I really need help on improving. Any comments would help a lot!

Thanks so much, The Ultimate Boss (talk) 03:20, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments by Z1720
Hi, I am not an expert in music scholarship or music theory, so this will be a non-expert review. I only reviewed the lede, which you can find comments about below.
 * "a hip hop, drill, trap, soul song" should there be an "and" after trap?
 * Added


 * " featured in 2020 year-end lists " what is so special about year-end lists? Is the song mentioned as one of the best songs of the year on these lists?
 * The song being featured in year end lists by three notable magazines is very notable when it comes to the song. They called it one of the best songs of 2020.


 * "When Pop Smoke recorded his part of the song, his team were all excited as it was their first time hearing him rap in a different tone." "all excited" does not conform to Wikipedia's disintereted tone. I would rephrase this to, "His team was excited when Pop Smoke recorded his vocals as it was the first time they heard him rap in a different tone." You are also going to have to explain what "a different tone" means.
 * Changed, and what they meant by "a different tone" is that he is known for his drill tone, but everyone who heard him rap the song was surprised because they never heard him in a different tone.
 * The change in tone should be described in the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)


 * "They went to the Bahamas" who is they?
 * Changed to "Pop Smoke and his team".


 * "when he played the song out of nowhere." Jargon like "played the song out of nowhere" needs to be reworded. Try to have a professional tone within your articles.
 * Changed


 * "add American rapper Lil Baby to it." change to "and wanted to include vocals by Lil Baby"
 * Changed


 * The last three sentences of the "Background" section are repetitive and clunky. A suggested rewrite might be "The track was supposed to feature Lil Baby and American rapper YoungBoy Never Broke Again, and YoungBoy wanted to be included in the track. CashMoneyAP decided not to feature them because he felt the timing was not right." I would also like to know what "the timing was not right" means.
 * Changed, and what I think CashMoneyAP meant by "the timing was not right" was YoungBoy was not a good pick for the song.
 * This should be described in the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Added


 * I also think you need to rework the Background section. It goes from talking about including Lil Baby, to communicating with YoungBoy a the beginning of the process, back to Lil Baby in the next paragraph.
 * Changed


 * "Pop Smoke was murdered at the age of 20." Whoa, lots more information needs to be included about it. Why did the others continue working on the track after Pop Smoke's murder? What changes did the producers make after his murder? There should be a whole paragraph, at least, about how the track changed (or didn't change) after Pop Smoke's death.
 * I removed that part of because it does not add anything special to the article. The Complex source also does not talk about what they did with the song after Pop Smoke was killed.

I'm pausing here because this is a lot to work on. I suggest reading the entire article to remove jargon and expressions from the prose. Also, make sure the article is well organised and doesn't jump around from topic to topic. Please ping me when you have done this and I will take another look. Z1720 (talk) 16:56, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the comments. I have changed and added all of your concerns. Let me know if anything else needs to be changed or added. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I have added more thoughts below:

General comments:
 * I added follow-up comments to some responses above.


 * The article is very short. This does not mean it cannot pass FAC, but it does mean it will be scrutinized more rigorously to ensure it includes all available information about this track. Ensure you looked everywhere for sources; some places I look for sources is WP:LIBRARY, Google Scholar, Google News, databases I access from available from my local library's website, databases from my university alumni library website and archive.org. You can also look at recently passed FACs about music tracks and look at the websites and news outlets those articles used. Lastly, if you have not already done so I suggest finding someone who has passed a couple of FACs about music tracks to ask them where they found sources. They can also read through this article inform you if you are missing any important sections. (You can even ask them to comment in this PR!) I am not a music expert, so although I think this article might be complete an "expert" editor might give other ideas.
 * I contacted several editors and none of them responded. The sources in the article are all I could find. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 05:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Since this track is from a posthumous album, I would include information on the producer's reaction to the artist's death and why this track was included on the album.
 * There was never any info on how the producers reacted to his death and why the song was added to the album

Lede
 * "CashMoneyAP and Palaze produced the song with assistance from Jess Jackson, Mike Dean, and Wylo." Delete "with assistance from"
 * I think it should be there because Jess Jackson, Mike Dean, and Wylo were credited as assistant producers.


 * "The song further reached the top-five" Delete further
 * Done

Background


 * "while helping Palaze add drums." How did CashMoneyAP help Palaze add drums?
 * CI'm guessing he helped add drums from a computer.


 * "and said they needed to and wanted to include vocals by Lil Baby." Delete "needed to and"\
 * Removed


 * "Pop Smoke was completely the opposite." As a non-music person I do not know what the opposite of "bright, mid-forward, nasally vocal voices" is and this needs to be described in the article.
 * I have removed it because it does not add that much to the article anyway.

Writing and composition
 * "Musically, "For the Night" is a hip hop, drill, trap, and soul song." Delete musically
 * Done


 * For the above quote, most reviewers don't like four citations in a row like that. I prefer a max of three. Try to delete some sources, or perhaps put the source next to the descriptor it is verifying.
 * Done


 * "Pop Smoke, DaBaby, and Lil Baby "fantasize about nighttime occurrences"." Is this critic describing the lyrics? If so, this should be specified.
 * Added more infro


 * " Hannah Giorgis of The Atlantic commented that Lil Baby and DaBaby add "arioso and vigor" to the song." This belongs in the critical reception section.
 * Changed to reception section.


 * "Briana Younger of NPR, Jade Gomez from Paste, Billboard's Heran Mamo, and Los Angeles Times's August Brown noted that DaBaby pays tribute to Pop Smoke in his verse: "Rest in peace to the Pop, make me smoke ya."" I don't think we need to name the reviewers who verify this information; if three reliable sources say something then we can confirm that it is verified. Also, we should not have four sources in a row like that as footnotes. Remove the least reliable ones
 * Removed NPR.

Critical reception
 * This section falls a lot into the "X said Y" format. Is there a consensus of opinion that emerges from the sources? For example, if five sources praise someone's vocals, you don't need to say which ones specifically said something.
 * Articles also need to be careful about how often they use direct quotes. All of the negative reviews are quoted, and I wonder if we can eliminate some of them.
 * I have imporved the reception a lot.

Unfortunately I will have to continue this later. Z1720 (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Finishing up my comments:

Release and commercial performance
 * "giving Pop Smoke his first, DaBaby his fourth, and Lil Baby his fifth top-10 hit in the US." Considering this is stating 3 facts, I don't think you need 4 footnotes. Can you remove one of them?
 * Removed one


 * ""For the Night" further reached the top five in Belgium,[36] Portugal,[37] and Greece, with the latter of the three becoming the most successful, peaking at number one on the country's singles chart." Reword to: ""For the Night" reached the top five in Belgium[36] and Portugal,[37] and peaked at number one in Greece's singles chart." This tightens up the language.
 * Changed

References
 * Ref 23 (Amazon) is likely to be challenged as a reliable source at FAC. Can you find a music website that gives the date of this release?
 * Changed to All Access

Those are my thoughts. I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 14:43, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Z1720 Thanks a lot for the comments. How does the article look now? The Ultimate Boss (talk) 05:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi There's a list of music sources at WikiProject Albums/Sources that you might be able to consult.

Here are some specific comments:


 * "about nighttime occurrences." What occurs in the night? Be more specific.
 * The lyrics make it very obvious that Pop Smoke, DaBaby, and Lil Baby rap about having sex with girls, doing drugs, and hanging in "the hood" (which means an area in which you live in the inner city.) But the source does not say this. I don't want to put original research.


 * "he usually was known for his use of the drill genre." Expand upon this. What was impressive about his rap tone that wasn't showcased in his drill vocal tracks?
 * The source does not go into detail about; only that Steven Victor never heard Pop Smoke sing in a different tone.


 * "he played "For the Night" without warning." Who did he play it in front of? Was it during a recording session, a party, or something else?
 * I probably think it would be his team


 * "YoungBoy was not a good pick." Can we be more specific? Also, not a good pick is a euphemism and it would be better if we said why he was not chosen.
 * The source only tells how YoungBoy was considered for the track, and that he wanted to be part of it, but CashMoneyAP thought it wasn't right.


 * "Jess Jackson and Mike Dean had mixed and" delete had
 * Done


 * "It was also written along with" Delete along
 * " "fantasize about nighttime occurrences"" What kind of occurances? I feel like this is hinting at something that needs to be explicitly said.
 * Info above


 * " track as sinister." Is sinister a positive or negative comment?
 * positive


 * "DaBaby add "arioso and vigor" to the song." Wikilink arioso and describe what this means.
 * Added wikilink, but I don't know how I would explain it in the reception section.


 * "baritone staccato flow" use wikilinks

I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 00:29, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Z1720 Thanks for the comments. I have responded to them all. ShootForTheStars (talk) 01:43, 12 April 2021 (UTC)