Wikipedia:Peer review/Geoffrey Boycott/archive2

Geoffrey Boycott

 * Previous peer review
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for May 2009.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for May 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because it recently failed FAC for prose issues, and I would appreciate some help with this. Cheers, SGGH ping! 16:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Note: I have copyedited the lead and will raise a few questions later, but Wikipedia is playing up so I'm packing up for the moment. Will return tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 22:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment: I have now copyedited down to the "Playing style" section. This section is misplaced; it should appear in the article at the end, rather than at the beginning, of Boycott's career. Also it deals with rather more than his playing style, since it covers his bowling and also deals with his fielding. Brianboulton (talk) 22:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Are those not aspects of his game? SGGH ping! 22:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They may be aspects of his game, but they aren't significant factors in his "playing style". My chief problem, however, is the misplacing of the section, interrupting the chronology. Such material would be better placed at the end, when the main facts of his career have been established. Brianboulton (talk) 08:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Have moved it. SGGH ping! 09:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

More copyedit comments: I have got to the end of the "Early years" section (I altered the title from "Early days"). Please note the following:
 * The anecdote at the start of the Early years section should go. This is an encyclopedia, and its tone must be kept encyclopedic. I suggest you replace the anecdote with a brief account of Boycott's county debut and early matches in 1962 – missing from the article at present.
 * The anecdote is how he got noticed and signed for Yorkshire 1st XI. I have reworded it and included info on his debut in first-class and then county championship matches. SGGH ping! 09:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Can "on drive" and "forcing through the covers" be linked, in the way that you have linked "straight drive" later in the section?
 * I've removed the whole line, its covered in playing style. SGGH ping! 09:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The Close anecdote ("I joined Geoffrey in the middle..." etc) is also non-encyclopedic and should be reworded or removed.
 * I respectfully disagree, I think the comment is illustrative of Boycott's scoring problems, at least according to his fellow players, and of the friction he had with them. It also foretells a number of similar incidents later in his career. SGGH ping! 09:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I notice that the next sub-section is called "Captaaincy" and starts in 1971. That leaves a five-year gap in Boycott's career (1966–70)
 * I'll fill in some more info. SGGH ping! 09:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a difficult one, as from around that period he begins playing for England, and the early days international section covers most of it, and then the captaincy is the next most significant county event. Will be tough to fix. SGGH ping! 09:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I will continue shortly. Brianboulton (talk) 21:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't say I'm altogether convinced by your responses, above, but if that's your decision, well OK. I'll carry on with the copyedit, but please note I will be on a wikibreak after 25th May for 10 days or so. I'll do as much as I can before then, but I have other commitments, too. I'll do my best. Brianboulton (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Further ce comment: Captaincy section: can you give dates for Ted Lester's quoted comment and the Radio Leeds interviews? Brianboulton (talk) 00:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Note: I have copyedited the "Late years" section, but that's as far as I can go for now - am away until 3 June. Will be happy to resume then if you wish. Brianboulton (talk) 13:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments1 (as usual, skip the non-actionable ones, or those which you disagree with) In his previous Gillette Cup match, the quarter final against Somerset, Boycott had taken 32 overs to accumulate 23 runs[47] and so at Lord's, after Yorkshire had slowly reached 22/1, captain Brian Close promoted himself to number three to urge Boycott into action
 * Long line
 * Fixed SGGH ping! 09:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

One of these shots, a lofted straight drive off England paceman Geoff Arnold was nearly caught by Boycott's team mates on the players' balcony, despite the modern-day fielding restrictions not existing in 1965 and thus allowing more fielders to patrol the boundary.
 * Split the line. Sounds as if the lack of fielding restrictions allowed players to field in the balcony :-)
 * Will alter. SGGH ping! 09:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

17 years later, in 1982, Boycott and Graham Stevenson added a record 149 for Yorkshire's tenth wicket against Warwickshire; Stevenson hitting 115.[48]
 * Early days is not the section for this line (and there is no need to pair it with the Close stand).
 * Will find a place for it SGGH ping! 09:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Biographer and Daily Express columnist Leo McKinstry, however, collected statistics to argue that Boycott's captaincy had little effect on Yorkshire, as the club's 47 points in 1971 contrasts to a close 49 in 1970 when Boycott was not captain, and is far higher than 30 in 1969,
 * I don't get McKinstry's logic. How can you compare batting points from two different seasons and cite it to support Boycott's captaincy.
 * I'll re-read the source to check he doesn't mean points in total. Though I suppose that the fact that McKinstry's logic may be flawed doesn't mean the fact that he argues such shouldn't be included, maybe. SGGH ping! 09:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg to disagree on that point. We are under no obligation to include anything that we think are incorrect, inaccurate, too biased, illogical, views that are followed by only a minority (except while explicitly saying so) etc just because a source said so. Since your article is certain to get more readers than McKinstry ever will, we would be amplifying the damage if we blindly quote him. Tintin 10:20, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/Tables/County_Championship_1970.html & http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/Tables/County_Championship_1971.html are the two seasons. Tintin 10:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Very well, I shall edit. SGGH ping! 11:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

In 1974, Boycott's form dropped sharply, scoring only 75 runs in seven matches
 * There is no sequence where Boycott had such a bad patch (at least in fcc). He in fact scored 1220 @ 58 in the season. Tintin 05:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But that includes Tests (though he refused to tour and play for England '74-77) and MCC, the source is referring to Yorkshire I believe. SGGH ping! 11:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have revisited the source and added clarification, those season stats include England, MCC and a match against Cambridge where he scored a century, I have reworded the source to illustrate that is the first seven first class matches against county teams (i.e. not Cambridge) SGGH ping! 11:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I am changing it to innings, which caused part of the confusion. The sequence is (140 v Camb), 1 & 17 v Northants, 15 & 14 v Indians, (89 v Ox), 12 & 1 v Indians (for MCC) and 15 v Warwicks. Thus seven innings but only four matches. Tintin 02:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

In 1982, Boycott and Graham Stevenson added a record 149 for Yorkshire's tenth wicket against Warwickshire; Stevenson hitting 115.
 * May mention Boycott's score here as it interesting (79 having opened the innings against Stevenson's 115 at No.11)