Wikipedia:Peer review/Gumbo/archive1

Gumbo
This peer review discussion has been closed. I was very hungry one day and looked up this article on one of my family's favorite foods. I was embarrassed by its quality and have rewritten the article in the last week or so. This is the first time I've tackled an article about food, and I'm unsure how to judge its quality. I'd welcome any comments, especially those on its organization, whether its appropriately sourced and whether it makes sense - both to those who have cooked and eaten this dish and those who have never heard of it.

I deliberately tried to rely on scholarly works and avoided commercial cookbooks. For this article, I have a broad disdain for cookbooks, partially because there are literally thousands of gumbo recipes out there and mostly because the few cookbooks I consulted that had any background information on the dish universally had misinformation in them (even as simple as when New Orleans was founded, or how to define a Cajun). That didn't leave me with a lot of confidence in them. Thanks, Karanacs (talk) 19:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments from Jappalang

Lede
 * Why is "gumbo z'herbes" in bold?

Etymology
 * "In the language of the native Choctaw people, ..."
 * Would it be better to state "native American" instead, seeing how the preceding statement puts emphasis on West Africa?

Variations
 * "In theory, any combination of meat or seafood can be used, but in practice oysters are generally the only seafood used in a meat-based gumbo, and sausage and ham are the only meats used in a seafood-based gumbo."
 * I think this should be shifted to the end of the paragraph and rephrased as "In theory, meat can be added to seafood-based gumbo and vice versa; in practice, generally only oysters are added to meat-based gumbo, and sausages and ham to seafood-based versions."

Thickeners
 * "Okra is more likely to be used as a thickener in seafood gumbos rather than those with meat."
 * I believe "rather" is redundant here.


 * "... before other vegetables and meats or seafood are added."
 * It seems uncertain if seafood is a plural noun, so I suggest "... before other vegetables (and seafood or meat) are added."


 * "The longer the cooking process, the darker the roux."
 * This seems to be an incomplete sentence to me.

Creole vs Cajun
 * "... celery was rarely used in Creole gumbo, but it is now much more common."
 * This sentence structure makes "it" refer to celery, which poses the confusing question on why would the existence of celery be more common now...

Gumbo z'herbes
 * "During Lent, when Catholics were traditionally expected to abstain from meat, a different type of gumbo was often served."
 * "In the past, Catholics were traditionally expected to abstain from meat during Len, and a different type of gumbo was often served."


 * "Known as gumbo z'herbes ..."
 * Why is "gumbo z'herbes" in italics here but not anywhere else?


 * "... combined a large number of greens – typically including turnips, ..."
 * I believe "including" is redundant.

Background
 * "Nobles believes the ..."
 * Author Cynthia Lejeune Nobles should be identified here rather than the later Development subsection. I think it is also better to explicitly state her as "Cookbook author" than just "author" to show what expertise she is supposed to have.


 * "... learned new methods of cooking and to identify edible indigenous plants."
 * "... learned new methods of cooking and identifying edible indigenous plants." or "... learned new methods of cooking and ways to identify edible indigenous plants."


 * "... the art of making sausage."
 * "... the art of making sausages."?

Origin
 * "... its uncertain etymology makes it difficult to pinpoint the exact origins of the food."
 * I think "pinpoint" makes "exact" redundant.


 * "When the Acadians moved to Louisians in the mid-18th century, ..."
 * Louisiana?


 * "... Acadian colonists substituted local ingredients for those commonly included in the fish stew. Instead of the original fish, settlers used shellfish."
 * "... Acadian colonists substituted local ingredients for those commonly included in the original stew. Instead of fish, settlers used shellfish."


 * "They instead served gumbo over corn grits, a pairing common in the stews of native tribes."
 * I think not only is "instead" redundant, it is pretty jarring to the reading flow here.


 * "This, and the use of ..."
 * "This manner of serving, and the use of ..."?


 * "According to legend, in 1722 female French colonists gathered in New Orleans ..."
 * I think it would be best to insert a comma after the year; I can easily imagine several readers misreading it as "According to legend, 1722 female French colonists gathered in New Orleans ..." (overlooking the "in").

Development
 * "It gained a broader profile after the death of Senator Allen Ellender. Ellender, a native of Terrebonne Parish, had often cooked gumbo for his colleagues, including five American presidents."
 * "It gained a broader profile after the death of Senator Allen Ellender. A native of Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana, Ellender had often cooked gumbo for his colleagues, including five American presidents."


 * "The dish became more widely popular in the 1980s, when Chef Paul Prudhomme's popularity spurred interest in Creole and Cajun cooking."
 * I know the gist behind saying the popularity of a chef spurred this interest, but it just does not sound right to me (lack of specifics). Was it because he hosted a popular TV cajun cooking show, or did newspapers tout his cajun recipes as the next biggest thing?

Preparation and serving
 * "... the okra and/or roux are cooked first.", "... with water and/or stock ..."
 * Undesirable construct per MOS:ANDOR.


 * "Occasionally, meat (never seafood) is browned beforehand or in the same pot as the okra ..."
 * "... browned beforehand or in the same pot ..." does not compute... the first is a time frame, the second a physical location.


 * "According to author Cynthia Lejeune Nobles, ..."
 * I think she does not need another full introduction again so soon.

Social aspects
 * "Before refrigeration, the dish was also an efficient way to finish leftover perishable meats and seafoods."
 * Why "before refrigeration"? I think it is also better to replace "finish" with "use up".

Images
 * File:Cajun seafood gumbo.jpg
 * This might need a Wikibooks admin to confirm that released the photograph into public domain and not under some other license.

Just the above issues. I think this is quite a good article for a food. Jappalang (talk) 08:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much, Jappalang! I'll get on these within the next few days. Karanacs (talk) 15:10, 8 October 2010 (UTC)