Wikipedia:Peer review/History of Tranmere Rovers F.C./archive1

History of Tranmere Rovers F.C.
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I've recently undertaken a major rewrite of the page. This is my first step into the world of peer review, so any pointers will be gratefully received.

Thanks! U+003F ? 15:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Hope this helps. Oldelpaso (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comments by Oldelpaso
 * Looking at how the article was before you started your rewrite, it appears to have been a copy-paste of, and was thus a copyright violation at the time. While your rewrite has improved matters in this regard, there are still significant portions of the text which have not been rewritten sufficiently to stop them being violations of copyright and/or plagiarism. For example, the paragraph starting "Not satisfied with playing friendlies against local opposition" is virtually identical to that in the reference.
 * There are many unsourced statements that require references. Any statement that a sceptical reader could question needs a reference. In practice this means more or less anything that would not be common knowledge to a reader unfamiliar with the topic.
 * Unfortunately, for a club of Tranmere's size, using only web sources for references will only get you so far. To reach the standard I think you are aiming for, print sources will be needed, as those will be the best sources of information about Tranmere's history. Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here.
 * It is unusual to see a list of managers in a history subarticle. Usually these are either part of the main club article, or if they have outgrown it, in a separate article of the form List of X F.C. managers. Some of those have become featured lists, so looking there would give the best examples.
 * Could do with a more explicit explanation that Tranmere's entry into the Football League was part of the creation of the new Third Division.
 * The aggregate of 17 goals in one game remains a league record[6] (see English football records). Instead of the section in brackets, it is more readable to put a piped link at the end of the sentence; league record.
 * Tranmere beat First Division superstars Arsenal 1–0 at Arsenal's former Highbury home. Be wary of peacock terms such as "superstars". The close repetition of "Arsenal" is a little jarring.
 * I'm not quite sure where it would fit, but the article seems incomplete without some mention of how Tranmere have largely lived in the shadow of the more illustrious clubs the other side of the Mersey. In places it is assumed that the reader already knows about this.
 * What makes tranmere-rovers.co.uk a reliable source?
 * A couple of bits of pedantry: dashes in scorelines should be endashes (WP:DASH), articles in British English tend to use " First / Second World War" instead of "World War I / II".
 * Comments by ChrisTheDude
 * Tranmere Rovers F.C. is an is an
 * The currently play in League One.
 *  the team won its first recorded match [....] and lost just one of their - singular and plural referring to the same thing in the same sentence - pick one or other and be consistent
 * a record unlikely ever to be broken - says who? it's probably true, but smacks of POV as an unsupported statement
 * an incredible 57 goals - avoid POV terms such as "incredible"
 * and a place in the Division Two - we don't normally say "the Division Two"
 * The Club brought in - why the capital C?
 * coming from a goal down to equalize - UK subject, so don't use US spellings
 * 2003 saw the appointment - a year does not have eyes, therefore it cannot see
 * and bizarrely replaced - who says it was bizarre?
 * Are there no images available from the club's history other than drawings of kits........?

Hope this helps! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks to Oldelpaso and ChrisTheDude for their massively in-depth comments. I've tried to address your concerns, though there remain a few things outstanding
 * Response by U+003F
 * Copyright violoation of TheCowsheds
 * I've rewritten bits of the article at random. Are there any tools to see if any similar chunks of text remain?
 * Edit: I found a tool that allowed me to locate copied parts of the article. These have now been rewritten or removed


 * Print sources will be needed
 * I stumbled across the goldmine at RSSSF which has allowed me to reference almost all the result-related statements. Do you still feel that a print source is needed?
 * Edit: found a print source to help out


 * Images available other than drawings of kits?
 * No. At least I couldn't find anything old other than this grainy and probably copyrighted picture. Is one needed?
 * Edit: found a newer image from the 2000 Football League Cup Final
 * Edit: uploaded an image from 1921

Having now read other requests, I realise that you should specify at peer-review what standard you are aiming for; in this case, I'd like the article to get to a good standard. Is much more work needed? Thanks again! U+003F ? 16:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

In my experience of this type of article, web-based sources supplemented with occasional print ones will usually be good enough for GA. If you wanted to subsequently go all the way to make it a featured article eligible to appear on the main page, then what I said about print sources might return, as the featured article criteria call for a "thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature". My following additional comments are almost certainly pickier than the average GA reviewer.
 * they won their first game against Brunswick Rovers 4–0, and lost only one of their fifteen matches makes it sound like the first of several against Brunswick, not the first of any type.
 * Second paragraph is still a bit too close to the source. I'd remove the sentence about gate money.
 * Steeles Field in Birkenhead, in a kit of blue shorts, white shirts and blue socks - citation needed for the kit.
 * They continued their rise up the league pyramid - there was no pyramid system below the Football League at this time, the various leagues were independent of one another.
 * shown through their becoming a limited company and moving to the present Prenton Park site still very close to the cowsheds source, which isn't cited anywhere in the paragraph. A rough paraphrase is no longer a copyright violation, but it can still be plagiarism.
 * WFDA source verifies that Rowlands played that match, but not that he was Tranmere's first international.
 * Tranmere were promoted to the Central League would this have been a promotion?
 * I understand the mentions of Dean and Waring, as they became all time greats, but Ridding seems an odd one as his player career was pretty undistinguished.
 * Rovers claimed their first ever Championship in the Football League in 1938 when a tally of 56 points was enough to capture the Division Three North title and a place in Division Two for the first time - Granted, there's only so many ways to write it, but this is word for word the same as on.

Let me know when you're done and I'll run through the rest of the article. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * and done. Thanks again for the continued, detailed feedback. U+003F ? 10:09, 10 May 2011 (UTC)