Wikipedia:Peer review/Hobey Baker/archive1

Hobey Baker
This peer review discussion has been closed. I put this article through GA last May, which passed, and FA in September, which did not. Then I got caught up in my university studies, and had to put off working in the article. Now I'm done for the summer, I want to get it through FA. One issue that came up was a lack of good copy-editing and prose issues. As the main conbributer of the article, I don't think I'm the best person to go through with this. Thus, I'm asking for some assistance from someone, anyone.

Thanks, Kaiser matias (talk) 00:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

More like 'will do,' but there's no willdo. I'll give it a look this evening. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 18:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow. This is an excellent article - wide-reaching, comprehensive, and at the same time on-point. The FA objections last time seemed to be strictly prose-related, and all long since addressed.

The "Awards" section seems very superfluous. Two subheads, each with a table with only a single cell in them? Doesn't seem like the best use of...anything. Surely these awards can be mentioned in prose in the "Legacy" section. My guess is you're gonna quote me some WikiProject-approved style guideline, but I'd still merge it/convert it to prose.
 * The Awards section is a thing that is used within the Ice Hockey Project, and I'd be reluctant to remove it because of that. However I did incorporate the awards into prose.

ALT text is required for all images in an FA. None of your images currently have it.
 * Done

While at St. Paul's, Baker was introduced to hockey. Pedantic, but specify (and perhaps link) ice hockey here. It's the first time it's used in the body of the article. The usage in the lead is spot-on. This does make me wonder if American football should get the same treatment, but I can't bring myself to think that's the right thing to write. It might be more surgically accurate, but brilliant prose it is not.
 * I linked ice hockey. As for the comment about football, it also has the issue that he likely knew the sport before goign to the school. It also doesn't have any source, while his discovery of hockey is explicitly mentioned.

A bit of numeral/spelling confusion - in consecutive paragraphs, we have At the age of 11, Baker and his 12-year-old brother Thornton were sent to St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire. and then Baker was named to the school's varsity team at the age of fourteen  Pretty sure that 14 should not be spelled out, but the big thing is the usage should be consistent. age of fifteen also occurs.
 * I spelled out "11" and "12", just to make it consistent.

Are two infoboxes that contain most of the same information really necessary? The only information I can see in the second that's not in the first is Baker's football position. My first assumption was that that information has to be present elsewhere in the article, but it actually doesn't seem that it is, so that's a problem.
 * That is something I thought about as well. With nothing else to base this on, I took a look at List of multi-sport athletes and clicked some random names. They all have two infoboxes where appropriate. While it's not the best argument, it seems like a consensus move.

I wasn't aware football helmets even existed that long ago. Our article football helmet says that they were invented in the late 1800's, but didn't come into widespread use until the 1920's. This caused me to check the source next to Easily recognizable on the field as he was one of the few players not to wear a helmet, Baker was referred as "the blond Adonis of the gridiron" by Philadelphia sportswriters. The source doesn't back up that Baker was "one of the few players not to wear a helmet," but simply that he did not in fact wear one - the operative phrase from the source text is Scorning a helmet, quarterback Baker became a regular headline-grabber.....
 * I modified the sentence. It should be better now

In back-to-back paragraphs (back-to-back sentences no less) we have During a game against Yale on November 18, 1911, Baker set a school record when he had 13 punt returns for 63 yards. and During the 1911 football season Baker scored 92 points, a school record that lasted until 1974. Are we to conclude that the first record still stands?
 * Clarified that

Passive voice is icky - Baker was given a standing ovation by the sell-out crowd. Suggest Baker received a standing ovation from the sellout crowd, since I'm guessing you don't want the sellout crowd gave Baker a standing ovation.
 * Fixed

Not sure twenty-minute halves is proper usage. And same for sixty minutes of game-time, especially unsure about that hyphen.
 * I changed the wording there, should be better

This also ended with a draw The subject of the sentence is the two overtime periods referred to in the previous sentence, so shouldn't it be These also ended with a draw ?
 * Fixed

only five Harvard players and one Princeton player had been replaced by a substitute Pluperfect passive voice...oy vey. Please revise.
 * Fixed

Baker was noted as not even breathing heavily at that point. Really don't like "noted as" or "even" in this sentence. First just doesn't sound natural, and the second sounds just the tiniest bit POV.
 * Modified

Saltonstall, who would later serve as Governor of Massachusetts and a United States Senator Major pet peeve here. Don't use the subjunctive in place of the simple past. Just - who later served as..... Especially with another would later in the same sentence! Revise. Something like Saltonstall later served as a......, and he kept the stick he used to score the goal in his personal trophy case/whatever
 * Fixed

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but how does Princeton play Ottawa for the "Intercollegiate Hockey Championship of America," lose, and then win the "national championship" shortly thereafter?
 * I really don't have an answer for that. A quick look at a couple sources both list the Ottawa game as the "Championship of America," including stuff from that era. I'd guess that they used America there in the sense of North America, though I have no way of confirming that.

By the end of his football career at Princeton, he had two notable achievements: he had never fumbled a punt, and had never lost to Yale. I'm gonna admit I don't know a whole lot about football (nor do I care to), perhaps evidenced by that claim about football helmets above, but I'm still led to wonder if the first 'notable achievement' here is really all that notable.
 * I'm also not that knowledgable about football, but those two things came up in a couple different sources, so I'm inclined to believe they mean something in relation to football.

The summer after graduation, Baker toured Europe as a celebrity correspondent for The New York Times where he wrote about events like the Henley Royal Regatta. This sentence is missing a comma, since it contains a subordinate clause. Just like that sentence!
 * Fixed

I don't have a problem with he was given a job myself, but I could see it causing problems down the road. You might want to go with he started work at or something the like.
 * Changed

Baker earned about $20 per week It would be dandy if you could tell use what this translates to in current money. (Some pedant will probably also tell you to link the dollar sign to United States dollar, but I really HATE that) I have no idea how to use inflation, though, so good luck with it.
 * Added the template. I'm sure it'll be corrected if its done wrong.

Baker was often loaned Pyne's valet and car. Why not just Baker often borrowed..... ? It's quicker, and it doesn't have that icky subject-less passive voice.
 * Fixed

I'd revise Baker was offered a contract by the Montreal Canadiens of the National Hockey Association as well.
 * Fixed

social conventions prohibited a person of his standing from playing sport for money. Not sure I understand what this means, but also, "playing sport" is BrE usage. AmE is "playing sports." A typo, perhaps? Since the rest of the article is unflappingly AmE (and indeed the usage of "sports" is otherwise consistent).
 * Fixed

Get rid of that parenthetical phrase in front of citation 38. Maybe just take away the parentheses and make it a normal sentence? I wouldn't really see anything wrong with that.
 * Removed

Still more passive voices as the article goes on. Icky.

That's about all I've got (and yes, I would consider this "not much"). Really good article, great work. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 02:50, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for going over it. I addressed everything there. If there are any other concerns, just let me know. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)