Wikipedia:Peer review/Hong Kong/archive1

Hong Kong
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because this article failed 2 FARs this year already and I want to make sure all WP:FACR have been satisfied before I submit for its 3rd FAR this year.

Thanks, Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 04:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments, first installment: Here are comments from the top through the "Geography" section. I will add more later but thought it might be helpful to post these now.


 * The dab tool at the top of this review page finds two links to disambiguation pages rather than their intended targets.


 * fixed the second dab link, I think the first one is an intended dab link since it's at the other use line Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 06:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Lead


 * "Hong Kong's population is 95% ethnic Chinese and 5%... " - It's generally preferred to use "percent" rather than the symbol in simple cases like this and to add a no-break space between the digits and the word "percent" to hold them together on line-break. WP:NBSP has details about the no-break code. Ditto later in the article, in the geography section and elsewhere.


 * "The Hong Kong dollar is the 9th most traded currency in the world." - Numbers from one to nine are usually written as words; i.e., "ninth".


 * "now Aberdeen Harbour/Little Hong Kong" - Front slashes are ambiguous. Better would be to use "and" or "or" or a hyphen, whichever makes most sense.


 * fixed in the lead paragraph. Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 06:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Etymology
 * MOS:COLLAPSE advises against using collapsing boxes in the main text, including captions. The hide-show pronunciation guide will fail FACR, I'm pretty sure, and should be changed to just "show".


 * had to relocate the template, since it messes up the layout after set to always show... Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * In this case, I think I gave bad advice. Since I posted the note above, I've realized that the weather box is also collapsible, and I've never heard anyone complain about the hide and show nature of weather boxes. The collapsible pronunciation guides may also be OK. I agree with you that the "show" mode messes up the layout. However, I don't know what the fix is. A third opinion might help., , or , all frequent PR reviewers, might be willing to look at this specific question if asked. Finetooth (talk) 15:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Pre-colonial
 * "Eight petroglyphs were discovered on surrounding islands dating back to Bronze Age during the Shang Dynasty time period, which are believed to have been used to pacify bad weather." - A bit awkward. Suggestion: "Eight petroglyphs, believed to have been used to pacify bad weather, were discovered on surrounding islands dating to the Bronze Age during the Shang Dynasty."


 * "incorporated the territory into imperial China for this first time" - "The first time" rather than "this first time"?


 * "Military clashes between China and Portugal ensued resulting in the Portuguese expelled." - Doesn't quite make sense as written. Suggestion: "Military clashes between China and Portugal led to the expulsion of the Portuguese."


 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Post-war
 * "When the People's Republic of China" - Add the abbreviation PRC here too so that it will make sense by itself later; i.e., "People's Republic of China (PRC)".


 * "With the development of the manufacturing industry in southern China beginning in the early 1980s, Hong Kong's competitiveness in manufacturing declined and its economy began shifting toward a reliance on the service industry, which enjoyed high rates of growth in the 1980s and 1990s, and absorbed workers released from the manufacturing industry." - A bit too complex. I'd recommend breaking this into two sentences.


 * "a high degree of autonomy for at least fifty years after the transfer" - Numbers bigger than nine are usually written as digits unless they start a sentence; i.e., 50.


 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Modern times


 * "Since 1997" might be a better head than "Modern times" since "modern" is less specific.


 * "In 2009, Hong Kong hosted the fifth East Asian Games competed by nine national teams." - "Competed by" is not used as a verb form. Suggestion: "In 2009, Hong Kong hosted the fifth East Asian Games, in which nine national teams competed."


 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Governance
 * WP:MOS suggests using straight prose rather than lists whenever feasible. My suggestion here would be to use prose paragraphs without the bolded subheads or bullets. You might have to combine one-sentence items with other items to make paragraphs of reasonable length.


 * compressed the list to single paragraph Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Defence
 * "As a British Colony and later as a territory, defence" - Dangling modifier. Suggestion: "When Hong Kong was a British Colony and, later, a territory, defence... ".


 * not sure if the comma after "and" is necessary Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Geography and climate
 * "Hong Kong's long and irregular coast line provides" - Tighten by one word by deleting "line"?


 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Finetooth (talk) 17:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments, installment 2: Here's the second batch. The article seems comprehensive, and the prose is generally fine. Minor prose, layout, and Manual of Style tweaks are in order, as noted. Be sure that the FACR concerns about images and sources have been addressed, and you should be OK for FACR 3. Good luck.

Text sandwiches
 * The Manual of Style advises against sandwiching text between two images. The "Post-war" section has a text sandwich. "Governance" has a slight one that could be eliminated by moving File:HK Government House 2005.jpg down a bit. Education has one that could be fixed by moving File:HKUST Sundial.JPG down a bit.


 * ❌ ... maybe done? I edit in large resolution, it still looks sandwiching to me, but not sandwiching in lower resolution... is there a resolution standard? Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The standard is the thumb setting, but there are many exceptions based on what you think looks best. Images in the infobox and in maps and panoramas generally need to be bigger than thumb, and the settings are somewhat arbitrary. I generally aim for one image per section or more than one in sections big enough to accommodate them. If possible, I arrange images so that they don't overlap sections or interfere with edit buttons or make text sandwiches, and I try to place directional images so that they face into the page. Sometimes, though, there's an overriding reason for doing otherwise with one image or another, and a complicating factor is that the layout looks different on different screens. I'm working today on a laptop, which is all I have available to me at the moment. What looks slightly scrunched to me may look just fine on a bigger screen. Not sure. I suppose the best test is to see if any other readers mention the layout. Finetooth (talk) 15:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Education
 * "including government aids and grant schools" - Should "government aids-and-grant schools" be hyphenated?


 * i think it should be hyphenated Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Transport
 * "handling 3.74 million tonnes" - I'd probably give this in short tons as well.


 * added 4.12 million tons conversation Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Footnotes
 * Rather than linking directly from the footnote text to external sites, I'd suggest creating in-line citations just as you have for the main text. I don't think the direct external links will pass FACR.


 * replaced bare links with citation templates Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Further reading
 * "pp. 293" - The abbreviation for a single page is "p". Ditto for all similar instances in this list.


 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 05:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

FACRs
 * Two issues that came up during the most recent FACR involved image licenses and sourcing. I did not re-check the image licenses or look at the sources closely. However, it would be a good idea to make sure that the objections raised at the FACR have been addressed. It's fine to ask those reviewers to take another look.


 * I checked all images and sources, but I'll also request previous reviewers to take a look as well. Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 03:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog at WP:PR; that is where I found this one. I don't usually watch the PR archives or check corrections or changes. If my comments are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 20:07, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Another Finetooth comment: I forgot to mention that the lead does not now conform to the WP:LEAD guidelines. The lead should be an inviting summary of the whole article. The existing lead covers only the top sections, but the sections from Geography on down have been neglected. I'd suggest a re-write that devotes less space to history and governance and includes something about Culture, Transport, and so on. A good rule of thumb is to include in the lead at least a mention of each of the main text sections. Finetooth (talk) 18:23, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * ❌ I have rewritten the lead section, but now I'm not sure if it will satisfy criteria 1(a). Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 03:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * That seems better. Finetooth (talk) 15:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Nikkimaria's comments on sources and referencing (per request)
 * Source for percentage of water area?
 * What figures are you using to calculate that population density? Neither of the populations listed in the infobox give that result
 * "British merchants grew rapidly in the region" - what caused this? Growth hormones? Change in diet? Did they grow taller or wider ;-)?
 * "The World Health Organization reported 1,755 infected and 299 deaths in Hong Kong." - source?
 * "recent growing public concern has prompted the severe restriction of further land reclamation from Victoria Harbour" - source?
 * "one of the greatest concentration of corporate headquarters in the Asia-Pacific region" - source?
 * "Much of Hong Kong's exports consist of re-exports" - source?
 * "while industry constitutes 9%. Inflation was at 2% in 2007" - source?
 * "Hong Kong is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, at 6,200 people per square kilometer." - source? This figure contradicts the one in the infobox
 * "Other objects like Ba gua mirrors are still regularly used to deflect evil spirits, and buildings often lack any floor number that has a 4 in it, due to its similarity to the word for "die" in Cantonese" - source?
 * "with a focus on sensationalism and celebrity gossip" - source?
 * added sources to all of the above Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in how you refer to government departments - for example, you include both "Census and Statistics Department, Hong Kong Government" and "HKGov Census and Statistics Department"
 * all gov departments references use the same format for publisher name Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Ref 11 - retrieval date?
 * Ref 16 - page(s)?
 * Include page numbers for multi-page PDFs
 * Ref 22 - title?
 * Use "pp" only when including a page range or multiple pages
 * all fixed Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in formatting title translations
 * ❌ I'm not sure what to do with this one because the cite web, cite book, cite journal templates all place the "trans_title" and "title" parameter in different locations. Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 06:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems like the "work" parameter was messing up the order (maybe intended?) Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 06:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, using ref 32 as an example: "Tang, Chung (2005). "[Archaeologist help find Hong Kong's Roots]" (in Chinese). 考古與香港尋根. Volume 32. New Asia College. pp. 6–8. http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ics/ccaa/linkfile/cuhk_uc.pdf. Retrieved 21 August 2010." Does the Chinese script represent the article name or the journal name? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah... I see what you mean now, I finally figured out what's wrong with the Chinese references. It seems like cite journal doesn't like it when you don't give it a "work=" or "journal=" parameter, after I added those, it displays just like the other ones. Now they all look nice and consistent Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 03:44, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Use a consistent formatting for journals (for example, compare refs 30 and 31); include page numbers
 * Be consistent in italicizing or not italicizing publications like "People's Daily" or "The Economist"
 * the format matches now Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Ref 71: page(s)?
 * Ref 82: is there a less promotional source?
 * Refs 96 and 97 - titles and pages?
 * Refs 101 and 102 - retrieval dates?
 * Ref 115 - missing information
 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hong Kong Yearbook or Year Book? Use a consistent formatting for these - for example, compare refs 38 and 119
 * Be consistent in whether the "Education Bureau" is listed as the author or the publisher
 * Refs 135 and 137 should have the same publisher
 * Ref 139 - don't repeat date
 * ref 140 - retrieval date?
 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * What makes Hiking Hong Kong a reliable source?
 * Leisure and Cultural Service or Services?
 * replaced with different source Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in linking publisher name on first occurrence, always, or never
 * ❌ taken on the "first occurrence" approach to link the publisher names, but I can't find wiki page for some of the less notable publishers... should I use external link or leave them un-link? Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I would leave them unlinked, but that's more of a personal preference. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Ref 156 - publication date?
 * Ref 159: how did you manage to retrieve it several months before it was published?
 * Ref 162 - don't repeat publisher name
 * Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't include sites used as references in External links. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:50, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * removed those external links Ta-Va-Tar (discuss–?) 21:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)