Wikipedia:Peer review/Iron Cross/archive2

Iron Cross
This has come on quite well in the 7 months since the last peer review and my last edit. What do you think - should I take it to FAC? The usual "inline reference" merchants will have a field day, I suppose: anything else? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Some comments and questions. Overall a good article. I realize that not every point can be address or expanded, some of these topics may be out of scope or require data that simply does not exist. Wendell 19:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Requests for article clarity:
 * The Grand Cross was actually instituted in 1813 along with the Iron Cross, this needs to be addressed.
 * Suggest article cleary state if this award is only for the Army or could be awarded to Navy / Air force personel? Some WWII examples show the higher classes award to all branches of the Military.  Was this always true?  Only for higher classes?  The article says the 1813, 1870, and 1914 series had a Grand Cross was intended for senior Generals of the German Army which confuses the issue.  Also, the article says  Iron Cross was also used as the symbol of the German Army
 * Can the article clarify the exact criteria to receive the iron cross? Has it changed over time?  The WWII section says awarded for bravery in battle as well as other military contributions to a battlefield environment.  Does that apply to all the years of its use?  The noncombatant version and War Merit Cros also confuse the issue.  Could staff officers win the award with excellent planning?
 * The lead paragraph discusses no military decoration to honor or bravery has been issued since 1945; which partially addresses the award criteria in a reverse manner.
 * Is there signifance to its very simple design, unadorned, and is made from relatively cheap and common materials.'?   Strictly as a guess, was that all that was possible in 1813, but it started a tradition?
 * Could German non-Prussians receive the award in the 1813, 1870 and 1914 series?
 * Any information on how the 1813, 1870 and 1914 series were worn?
 * From the article, Following the end of the Second World War, the government of West Germany permitted its military veterans to wear it, although German law prohibits the wearing of an Iron Cross with a swastika. In 1957 the German government issued new Iron Crosses to World War II veterans, altered to display an Oak Leaf Cluster (similar to the Iron Crosses of 1813, 1870 and 1914) in place of the swastika. I gather all WWII Iron Crosses had the swastika, so I assume between 1945 and 1957, no one could wear or display their award.  I am missing something?
 * Just a suggestion, I do not know if it would work. Consolidate the discussion and list of famous award holders.  This section could also be expanded to counter balance the Hilter and Goering examples, with more typical examples (panzer aces, etc).
 * To clarify the statements that apply to all awards of the series, I suggest a Traditions section. This section could contain (if appriopiate):
 * 1) Award criteria requested above
 * 2) Historical connection between German Military and crosses already in the article (Teutonic Knights, Frederick the Great, etc).
 * 3) The section on Entitlements
 * 4) The discussion of Iron Cross as a symbol of the German Army (with some exceptions)
 * 5) The simple design aspect

Potential topics for a Featured Article:
 * How were the awardees selected? Nominated by commander?  Nominated for a single specific action, or what?   Decided by who or what?
 * Could it be award posthumously? Was this common?
 * In WWII, could SS personal receive the award? What about Waffen-SS ?
 * Does any information exist on the number awarded in the 1813 or 1870 series?
 * Five million were issued in WWI.  What percentage of the Military got one? Was it a common award?
 * In WWII, 2.6 million were issued. Why the decrease?  I assume WWII had more people in the Military, so the percentage award dropped.  Any signifiance?
 * Any stats on the number of living recieptants in 1945? How many replacement awards were issued to living veterns in 1957?
 * What is the post war tradition of the award?
 * 1) In Germany, is it legal to buy, sell, wear or display the award by someone not the awardee?  Are un-official replica's common?
 * 2) There were at least 7 million manufactured for WWI and WWII.  Is there a collectors market?  In general, did allied soliders treat them as trophies  (horrible but sometimes common in war) and bring captured ones back to their homeland?
 * 3) Any common traditions: awardee buried with the medal?  passed down from father to son?

Article expansion suggestions:
 * The 1813, 1870, and 1914 series had 2 common grades, and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross. The WW2 series had 2 common grades and many advanced grades.  Any significance worth discussing (besides vanity)?
 * Any year-by-year information exist for the numbers awarded in WWI and WWII? Could any trends be established?  Was it more awarded when Germany was winning or on the offensive?
 * Any East front vs West front award numbers available (for either WWI or WWII)?
 * Any famous (or infamous) units have unusually high percentage awarded?
 * I assume the Iron Cross was only issued for the wars specifically listed. What about other colonial actions that might have occurred in the 1880s thru WWI?  Why not authorized?


 * Gosh - a lot to think about. Thanks for your excellent feedback. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:56, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Dunno, seems a bit overkill, all that. If the article becomes that extensive, some of it should be broken into separate articles, no? Guapovia 16:31, 30 January 2006 (UTC)