Wikipedia:Peer review/Jayne Mansfield/archive2

Jayne Mansfield
This peer review discussion has been closed. A mid-importance article supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers that was reviewed by Version 1.0 Editorial Team and selected for Version 0.7 and subsequent release versions. The article has come a long way from a fan boy mish mash to a fair enough GA. Now is the time to take it to the next level. Aditya (talk • contribs) 05:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Previous peer review

Comments from The Rambling Man

 * "actress who worked in Hollywood and on Broadway" maybe be more specific and say she was a movie and theatre actress (or similar) rather than relying on our universal audience to understand that.
 * You link "blond" but not "platinum blond" which is probably more worthy of a link.
 * "of the late-1950s,[2] Mansfield starred" just "she" rather than repeat the surname.
 * Similarly, you link "cleavage" which, to me, is obvious, but not "hourglass figure".
 * "she enjoyed a successful Broadway run acting in Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? and later the film of the same name in 1957." perhaps "and later starred in the film..."?
 * " which was also produced " both of which?
 * "with rock legend" reads like a tabloid.
 * " blonde bombshells" ditto.
 * "actor-bodybuilder" these days that may be an en-dash, check with WP:DASH.
 * The lead fixed. Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:52, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "Jayne Mansfield, a natural brunette, was born on April 19, 1933" really odd place to say she was a natural brunette, as she was "born"!
 * " Vera Jeffrey's father, Elmer Palmer, was largely Cornish area of Pen Argyl, " what?
 * I don't know what to say about this factor, because I added a source before that says Mansfield's paternal grandparents were from Germany. What happened to that? ★ Dasani ★ 00:58, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is about her maternal grandfather. I can't locate the source you are referring to. Was it placed in a relevant place? Can you restore it? Aditya (talk • contribs) 04:15, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "he was into the slate industry." involved with?
 * "After his death, her mother " replace "her" with Jayne.
 * "attended... attended..." dull prose.
 * "which she advertised " perhaps "which she claimed..."
 * "40-21-35" check WP:DASH again here.
 * " In 1950, she married Paul Mansfield in May" Perhaps "In May 1950, ..."
 * "moved to Los Angeles in 1954. There she studied dramatics at UCLA. " merge.
 * Isn't Fall capitalised?
 * "episode: An Angel Went AWOL; broadcast date: October 21, 1954" episode titles are usually in quote marks, aren't they?
 * "publisher-editor" en-dash?
 * Early Life fixed. Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "reran " is that a real word? I would hyphenate it.
 * ❌ Rerun is a real word. Check Merriam-Webster. Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "just ten days" remove "just".
 * "[23])." move that ref outside and after the period.
 * ❌ I can't. It's part of the template. Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


 * "Career beginnings (mid-1950s)" section, for FAC I'd expect more refs.
 * Request. Will need a bit help there. Where do we need a ref? Can you tag the necessary bits? Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

That's a good start, let's see how we get on with that lot and I'll move on with the review if required. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks a ton. Will be addressing all of that by Monday. Is it possible to get a copyeditor involved. The prose is horrible. Aditya (talk • contribs) 12:43, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Accedie

 * Is Sam Brody the same person as Sam Brody? Confusing...
 * Not sure. I Googled and there is not much information available about Mansfield's Brody, except that he also worked as a lawyer. Was this Brody on Wikipedia actually a lawyer as well? He seems to be from the same time period as her and her mom, so it's possible. ★ Dasani ★ 23:31, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * According to the website cited on the film maker Sam Brody, he died in 1987, while the attorney died in 1967 together with JM. Probably not the same person. Besides there's no reference to the attorney making films. Aditya (talk • contribs) 05:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This phrase: and days later, a juvenile court judge awarded temporary custody of Jayne Marie to William W. Pigue and his wife Mary. Pigue was an uncle of Paul, who was stated to be the natural father of Jayne Marie – I got stuck on it when trying to copyedit, because I couldn't figure out what it meant. Pigue claimed to be Jayne Marie's natural father? Pigue was officially referred to as Jayne Marie's natural father? Does "natural father" mean birth father?
 * I have no clue either, though Martha Saxton and a few other biographers have stated that. If it remains too ambiguous, may be we can cut that natural father bit out altogether. Aditya (talk • contribs) 12:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The way the sentence is written doesn't even make sense. The only thing I understand is that Jayne's husband's uncle is the father of their daughter. I think this sentence needs to be rewritten. ★ Dasani ★ 23:29, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That natural father bit removed. Aditya (talk • contribs) 06:04, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Blonde" versus "blond" – I was taught at some point in my life that "blonde" should only refer to a woman with blond hair, while "blond" refers to any person with blond hair or the color of the hair itself. I tried to apply that rule here, but I may have missed a few instances. I care very deeply about this rule, even though it may or may not actually exist :-P
 * You are right. Blonde is female, and blond is generally male. I tried to keep it that way. Aditya (talk • contribs) 12:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Other than that, looks good, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes after a little more TLC from others. Also, I'm now tempted to go add a history section to Wardrobe malfunction, because it's clearly not something Britney Spears and Janet Jackson came up with all by themselves! Accedie talk to me  22:26, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The article still needs information clean-up, I think. But, that should be on the way. Aditya (talk • contribs) 12:41, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Dasani

 * You could try Peer review/volunteers. Also, have you printed this article out and read it out loud? It usually makes becomes easier that way. ★ Dasani ★ 23:29, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But, I still haven't managed to locate the missing/removed citation you referred to above. Aditya (talk • contribs) 06:04, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought it was about her paternal grandparents. Never mind that bit. ★ Dasani ★ 17:32, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, there seems to be too many images. Why two in a row? ★ Dasani ★ 17:34, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There are two instances of two pictures in a row. One showing her in the movie Rock Hunter and at the premier, prominently featuring her size differences. The other showing her gravestone and cenotaph, featuring differing dates for her death. Besides, for a comprehensive article, it has only 10 images (9 of them free). Is that too many? Aditya (talk • contribs) 19:48, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Update I have uploaded and placed the trailer of Rock Hunter. Trying to get through to more relevant images, including a replacement for the lead image. Aditya (talk • contribs) 02:58, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter what it is used to illustrate, it depends because sometimes pictures in an article can actually slow down browsing. On top of that, additional photos prove repetitive. I have seen some FAs with as many as eleven images, but they use them for various purposes (logos, performances, relationships, childhood photos, magazine covers). ★ Dasani ★ 04:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You missed the update, and there's this information. Aditya (talk • contribs) 11:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Later comments from Dasani

 * If you can find more critical reception on Mansfield, that would be great. What did the public think of her (even negatively)? ★ Dasani ★ 04:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I feel like you worked very hard on the article, but it still seems awkward in some parts. Quite a few sentences are misleading or repetitive. I've tried to clean up what I could, but I wouldn't be able to do the whole article. ★ <b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b> ★ 04:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you tried PRV yet? ★ <b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b> ★ 04:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Danger

 * The phrase "childhood lover" in the lede gives me the willies. "High school sweetheart" would be the cliche phrase; I'm trying to think of something that doesn't remind me of Lolita. More later. Danger! High voltage! 07:48, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am not sure why they put that. Paul wouldn't be a high school sweetheart since they didn't attend high school at the same time. Isn't he just a boyfriend turned husband? ★ <b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b> ★ 22:09, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I see childhood lover written in the lead. But, that too is probably unnecessary. Not sure though. Aditya (talk • contribs) 03:12, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Aditya Kabir

 * Shouldn't we have Anna Nicole Smith (check the article) and Divine (check this book) in the legacy part? Aditya (talk • contribs) 03:12, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

 A sidenote:  I like it when Dasani and I, two editors with pink signatures, make a lot of comments on Jayne Mansfield, the queen of pink. ;-) Aditya (talk • contribs) 03:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * JM did some 25 movies. Do we have them covered? Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:19, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we have sufficient coverage of her most important films - The Girl Can't Help It, Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?, Too Hot to Handle, The Wayward Bus, Promises! Promises!? Aditya (talk • contribs) 15:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Is there a free image available for Jayne and Mickey? Aditya (talk • contribs) 05:42, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to find out the birth and death years for the major characters in her life - Paul, Mickey, Mat, Elmer, Harry, Sidney, and Sam? Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Now that's going to be harder. I would like to know, too. One article cites Harry as having been born in 1916. That's all I know. ★ <b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b> ★ 04:11, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to find out when she went to the schools and colleges mentioned, the starting year and the end year - University of Texas at Austin,  University of Dallas, UCLA and  Highland Park High School?  Aditya (talk • contribs) 09:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I could be mistaken, but from what I have read, it does not seem she ever graduated from college. I've noticed that it is generally not necessary to include the years unless the celebrity graduated. ★ <b style="color:#ba6afd;">Dasani</b> ★ 04:11, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Nothing on Divoon, her catchword? Aditya (talk • contribs) 15:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, Paul Mansfield remarried and had four kids after JM, Mickey Hargitay brought up all of her kids, but one, including Jayne Marie and kept getting back to her grave, and Matt Cimbers brought up Tony. Aditya (talk • contribs) 06:44, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The legacy section probably needs to include major fanclubs. Aditya (talk • contribs) 11:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Miniapolis

 * Education section: I don't know what the phrase "went active" ("While attending the University of Texas, she worked as a nude model for art classes, joined the Curtain Club, went active at the Austin Civic Center, and spent her nights working as a receptionist at a dance club") means.
 * Multiple errors of judgement while copyediting. It originally read - "While attending the University of Texas, she worked as a nude model for art classes, joined the Curtain Club, was active at the Austin Civic Theater, and worked 7PM to 11PM at the desk of a dance club. " I would also want to put in "sold books door-to-door" right after the dance club bit. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Film stardom (late 1950s) section: "However, after some misunderstandings Mansfield's Wayward Bus co-star Joan Collins stepped in as her replacement". "Some misunderstandings" sounds uncomfortably vague; I'd either flesh it out with a citation (and a bit more detail) or remove it. As is, it doesn't add anything to the sentence.
 * There are three instances of information on JM's replacement in the article:
 * "Following The Sheriff of Fractured Jaw Fox tried to cast Mansfield opposite Paul Newman in Newman's ill-fated first attempt at comedy, Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys!. However, after some misunderstandings Mansfield's Wayward Bus co-star Joan Collins stepped in as her replacement."
 * "She was offered a part opposite James Stewart and Jack Lemmon in the romantic comedy Bell, Book and Candle (1958), but had to turn it down because of her pregnancy. Mansfield's rival, Kim Novak, would replace her in the film."
 * "Soon after her success in Promises! Promises! Mansfield was chosen from many other actresses to replace the recently-deceased Marilyn Monroe in Kiss Me, Stupid, a romantic comedy which would co-star Dean Martin, but she turned the role down due to her pregnancy with daughter Mariska. As in Bell, Book and Candle, Mansfield was replaced with Kim Novak. "
 * None has a reference/citation, and all are vague. Probably put in by the same editor. I also believe that finding references and expanding/rewriting needs to be tried first. If that fails to improve these parts, removal would be a good idea. Though I think replacement in major films is relevant information. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Article segmentation: I think the article should have more of a unified narrative; as I copyedited it, I found myself wondering how Mansfield's second marriage ended and her third marriage began. Her untimely death in a car crash is reported too far into the article; her career and her personal life don't need to be separated so much.
 * Right at this moment it's so fragmented to keep it more accessible to expansions, which should be done soon. As for her career, publicity and personal life - I probably would recommenced keeping them segmented. Judging by the mainstream media and most of her major biographies (I have no access to Diamond to Dust, the latest major biography), these are the three big components of her bio.
 * All three marriages will need a bit of improvement - the beginnings, the ends, and whatever is significant. Working on that.
 * Where to put the car crash (It's in the lead already)? Please, advice. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "United States" is abbreviated either "U.S." or "US"; the abbreviation used should be consistent throughout the article.
 * The article's layout is very good, with images alternating between left and right; it is also very well-sourced.
 * Awards section: "Oscar of the Two World award in Italy"? Sounds like a stilted translation.
 * This was the name provided by Faris. I don't know if there are other translations. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Red links: Since neither Whitney Williams nor attorney Sam Brody seem notable enough to have WP articles, I don't think they should be linked.
 * I haven't tried to create an article on either. Will be able to conclude after I search through the internet.
 * Will also need to create an article on Fairview Cemetery. It's entirely feasible. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Second marriage section: While I think Mansfield met Hargitay in 1955, it's not clear if that's the case or if Hargitay won Mr. Universe in 1955.
 * The marriage parts will need bit more expansion and cleanup. Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Blonde and pink section: "However, her pink earned more coverage than Novak's lavender". Cars, or something else?
 * Lavendar was Novak's color theme. Shall I add a note about it? Aditya (talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I figured lavender was Novak's "official" color, but wasn't sure if she had a lavender car like Mansfield's pink Caddy. All the best,  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 02:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wardrobe malfunctions section: The variation in Mansfield's breast size (regardless of multiple pregnancies and breastfeeding) seems exaggerated, perhaps for publicity reasons; is there a citation for any of that?