Wikipedia:Peer review/Jeannette Expedition/archive1

Jeannette Expedition
This is the story of an expedition that went badly wrong. Its basis premise—that the North Pole lay in the midst of a temperate sea and could be reached by a vessel following a thermometric current—was false. The ship was crushed by the polar ice after nearly two years of largely aimless drift, and only a third of the 33-man complement eventually reached safety after months of unimaginable hardship. Researching and writing this has been an odd experience; I cut my Wikipedia teeth eight years ago by writing polar expedition histories, but have rarely looked at the topic in the last five years or so. I may well be tempted again; meanwhile I would appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding this draft. I have attempted to use US spellings, but I daresay I have lapsed on numerous occasions.

Thanks, Brianboulton (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Cassianto

 * "De Long's rescue mission in Little Juanita had won him a certain celebrity..." -- Would: "De Long's rescue mission in Little Juanita had won him celebrity status" be better? Or were they handing out such celebrities back then?
 * I see what you mean... However, I feel "celebrity status" has a somewhat 21st century ring, so I've adopted a slightly different wording meaning the same thing. Brianboulton (talk) 10:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "... the port from which the Arctic expedition as to sail." -- tails off at the end and doesn't quite make sense.
 * Someone has kindly corrected this. Brianboulton (talk) 10:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I've conducted a few fixes; closing of spaces, ref formatting, etc.. . All looks ship shape so far. Up to "Voyage".  Cassianto Talk   22:00, 27 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for these comments. Anything further will, of course, be much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 10:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Wehwalt
Here is the first tranche of comments.
 * General comments
 * The government report I've sent you by email indicates that there was quite a to-do when the bodies of De Long et al. arrived in the U.S. Possibly some mention of this glorious return could be made. Those lieutenants may be worthy of mention in the article.
 * I have extended the section of text dealing with the return of the bodies. Most of this detail is covered by the existing citation to Guttridge, but I would like to add a citation to the Senate's Blackburn Report of 7 July 1886, per your second email, which gives a little extra info. Can you help me to frame this citation? As to the two lieutenants, I've named them, but I think the subsequent Congressional efforts to protect them from loss of pay and seniority arising from their 2-year absence is rather tangential to the Jeannette story. Brianboulton (talk) 12:15, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * As you wish. It made for interesting reading though.  I've adjusted the image.
 * Lede
 * "but the landfall proved inhospitable" While accurate, this may take too much thinking about for smooth prose. I might cut the phrase entirely as the next sentence deals with the matter.  In that next sentence, I might focus on the numbers who died, rather than who was saved.  It seems to me that would make things clearer to the reader.
 * I've added the total of the ship's complement, but otherwise prefer to leave the lead wording as it is. Brianboulton (talk) 12:32, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "The chief protagonist of the theory" protagonist is rarely used in that context, making it a challenge for the reader, I think. Possibly "champion" (which has a bit of alliteration) or "exponent"? And "thermometric" is even more of a jawbreaker.  "ice-free"?
 * Not another Pandora? Not raised from her watery grave on the Bounty-chasing expedition, I hope? (no action)
 * Shouldn't the Herald be linked?
 * "was the German cartographer, August Petermann." I know you prefer to do it that way in British English, but my view would be go with "was German cartographer August Petermann". I'm not the best at writing theory, and it's likely some Americans would agree with you, but my view as a practical writer is that in American English, it feels like you're being wordy. There! All this prose over a comma and an article.
 * " the proprietor of The New York Herald," "owner of the New York Herald". "Proprietor" is less common.
 * Background
 * " or otherwise of registering a "Farthest North"." maybe "or at least registering a "Farthest North"."
 * "thermometric". That word again.  At least link to a definition.  But I would suggest open-water channels or similar.  Possibly you could cast the sentence in terms of the sea being reached, rather than the ring being penetrated, that way you are keeping the focus on that undiscovered sea you speak so eloquently of.
 * " lost Franklin expedition generated a rash of expeditions" 2x
 * "This brought a succession of expeditions to the Sound" I'm not sure on the caps. Possibly the whole issue can be avoided with "A number of explorers pushed north from there in the following years"
 * August
 * "among those who rejected it was the leading German geographer and map-maker August Petermann" I'd cut the "the", though more because I try to avoid unneeded articles than because of any views about American English.
 * "The route had never previously been attempted." Possibly you should specify that you mean to reach the polar sea this way. The reader may feel that you are saying that the Bering Strait was as yet unnavigated.
 * George
 * "Greenland waters" less common in Yankspeak. Maybe "the coast of Greenland" or similar".
 * You are inconsistent in whether to include "The" in the name New York Herald. Our coverage suggests not.
 * "proprietor and publisher" I'd say "owner and publisher"
 * "full patronage" I'd say "full support" possibly "enthusiastic support"
 * I'd crop that image, could go either way on keeping the signature.
 * I agree it needs cropping. Unfortunately, my cropping software is misbehaving at the moment, and I gave up after three attempts. I'd be very grateful if you would crop it for me – cut a bit of space from th top, and everything below the signature. Brianboulton (talk) 16:05, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * James
 * "his father" I'd link to Bennett, Sr.
 * "barely observed mass of land" maybe "incompletely mapped mass of land" or similar.
 * " in the western hemisphere" I'm not sure this adds anything.
 * The last phrase of this section is the first phrase of the next section. I would change one or the other.
 * Ship
 * " Pandora on sale for $6,000." Given that "on sale" can have the meaning of a discounted price, I would change "on sale" to "offered". No price in sterling?
 * No sources give a sterling equivalent. It would be around £1,200 – which seems to me to be absurdly cheap for a ship of this size, but there we are. Brianboulton (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "was released from general naval duties" would the phrase "active duty" work in there?
 * More soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Crew
 * "young USN officer" I think "young naval officer" is good enough.
 * "were signed up" I think "were signed" or "were enlisted"
 * "but in other respects he faced setbacks" maybe "aspects" for "respects"
 * Voyage
 * "witnessed by large crowds from all quarters of the city" Did the crowd come from all quarters of the city, or did the witnessing take place in all quarters etc.?
 * "The army base at Fort Point " I wouldn't call Fort Point an army base, in the sense the Presidio was. Base really implies big and Fort Point isn't, really. I might say "The guns at Fort Point"
 * " The guns at Fort Point provided an eleven-gun salute" does not, to me, read very well. I've made it "The army at Fort Point..." etc
 * Maybe "An eleven-gun salute was fired off by the guns at Fort Point"?
 * "none of the various naval vessels" strike various
 * "a quantity of sled dogs" "a number of sled dogs"
 * "analyses of sea currents" while trapped in the ice?
 * Yes indeed. They drilled holes in the ice. Brianboulton (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Did they really celebrate New Year's Day? It wasn't a holiday yet.
 * Lena
 * "substantial" (used more than once) This isn't an adjective I think you'd commonly apply to a town in Yanklish.
 * "reindeer team" it's not clear what this is.


 * Aftermath
 * "a Naval Affairs subcommittee" House or Senate?
 * House, apparently, but the sources tend to get the two enquiries mixed up, making the text hard to follow. It is clear, however,  that the two enquiries came to the same conclusion.
 * Citations
 * The five columns look a little ... extreme.
 * It's excellent, and quite riveting. I've made some hands on edits, please feel free to revert what you don't like.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:10, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for these comments, which I've acted on except as noted (still considering five citation columns). Thanks also for the emailed material; the map is reproduced in Guttridge's book, and I had decided not to use it – a little too much small detail, I thought. If you could help with the two points mentioned above (citation format and cropping), that would b marvellous. Brianboulton (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * No trouble. Since my access to these materials has been extended for a year, do feel free to ask me to do a little digging. Excellent article, good to see you returning to the Arctic.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Tim
Just booking my front stall, but shall not occupy it with critic's notebook in hand till my learned friends, above, have had their say. Shall go and look at Diamonds are Forever in the meanwhile.  Tim riley  talk    16:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC) Nipping in quick, between the matinée and evening shows, not much from me. This seems an impeccable article, and I have had the Devil's own job to find anything to beef about. But here goes:
 * The coast may be clear now – jump in while you can. Brianboulton (talk) 20:58, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Lead:
 * Gordon Bennett: I have seen his grave, which is not far from Fauré's (which is why I was in that cemetery with rose in hand). This doesn't help your prose, but I thought I'd mention it, irrelevant though it be.
 * "in which Bennett footed all the bills" – a bit colloquial? Perhaps, boringly, just paid?
 * "effectively demolished" – can you ineffectively demolish something?
 * It's fairly common idiom, meaning "as good as", or "almost completely", etc. But I've no particular attachment to the word, so I've removed it. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * August Petermann
 * "was leading geographer and map-maker August Petermann" – oh, now come on! You may be writing in American as best you can, but there's no need to stoop to false titles on this majestic scale: The New York Times is on the side of virtue on this point: "Do not make titles out of mere descriptions, as in harpsichordist Dale S. Yagyonak. If in doubt, try the 'good morning' test. If it is not possible to imagine saying, 'Good morning, Harpsichordist Yagyonak,' the title is false". All together now, "Good morning Geographer and Map-Maker Petermann".
 * It was at the request of my prose-yankifying adviser, the Hon. Wehwalt, that I removed the "the". He does add, however, that he isn't greatly bothered, so rather than run the gamut of your considerable ire, I have restored it. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "the Gulf Stream, that swept" – I think for a non-restrictive clause you need "which" rather than "that"
 * George De Long
 * "extreme weather conditions" – open-minded though I am, as you know, I would impose a heavy fine or short custodial sentence on anyone who uses the phrase "weather conditions". It was very bad weather, however you try to posh it up. (This para, by the way, is otherwise rather magical – talk about a love-hate relationship!)
 * "Bad weather" is what you get on a dreary bank holiday in England, that stops the cricket. The term, I think, is inedequate for describing conditions in the High Arctic, with gale-force winds, heavy seas, treacherous ice, zero visibility and minus 40°C temperatures. "Extreme" seems reasonably descriptive; other suggestions welcomed, but they must reflect the severity of the conditions. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * James Gordon Bennett
 * "to consult the geographer" – to consult him?
 * Crew
 * "syphilis, but the latter's influential connections" – I think I'd avoid "the latter" here and just repeat "Danenhower's".
 * Drifting
 * Having looked at the WP article I'm still not sure about the spelling of "Congressional Medal of Honour" here. Pray ponder.
 * The sources use the American spelling, so I've now followed them. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

And honestly, that's all I can manage to carp at. This is a fine article, sad but strangely inspiring. Bravo!  Tim riley  talk    22:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * De Long party
 * "on a daily basis" – as opposed to daily or every day?
 * Aftermath
 * "at the famed restaurant Delmonico's" – not wild about the adjective: a touch of tabloidese, perhaps. "Celebrated" or suchlike would be more decorous perhaps.
 * Minor amendments done per your suggestions. Thank you for stopping by and, as usual, having something helpful to say. Your kind comments are also much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Finetooth
Lede
 * "After weeks of wandering in the wastes of the delta, less than half the ship's complement were saved..." – The logic seems a bit off. The whole complement wandered, not only the survivors.
 * I have slightly altered this wording, per Wehwalt's comment. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "Thermometric" is unusual enough to justify a Wiktionary link, perhaps: thermometric.
 * I've ditched the word. It's widely used in the sources, but the wiktionary definition isn't particularly helpful so I've worded differently. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Unlike The New York Times, the New York Herald appears not to have included the "The" in its name.
 * I think that it's acceptable to leave "The" out of newspaper titles when referring to them in the text – the New York Herald is often just the Herald. The New York Times doesn't occur in the text, only in the sources, where I think it should carry its full formal ttle. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add a link for New York Herald on first use in the lede?

George DeLong
 * "the ship's tender" – Link ship's tender?
 * "Bennett knew the news value of Arctic exploration—two Herald reporters had accompanied Juanita,[34] and in 1874 Bennett was helping to fund the British sailor Allen Young..." – Em dashes usually come in pairs. Should there be a trailing one after Juanita instead of a comma?
 * "On his return from Gotha..." – This implies that he traveled to Gotha to see Petermann, but it might be even better to say so more directly. Also, Gotha should be linked, I think, either here or earlier in the Petermann subsection, which mentions the "Sage of Gotha" without further explanation.

Ship
 * "formally commissioned into the U.S. navy" – Cap "N" on "Navy"?

Crew
 * "hoped to utilize" – I'm always inclined to replace "utilize" with "use", though it sometimes might cause a verb-noun confusion. Flip a coin to decide.
 * Hear, hear! if an English editor may venture an opinion here.  Tim riley  talk    22:17, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Problems
 * "U.S. Coast and Geodesic Survey" – Link to U.S. National Geodetic Survey?


 * More to come. Finetooth (talk) 18:15, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Icebound
 * "unable to get closer than six miles" – Perhaps 6 mi if you think it wise.
 * "Christmas 1879, and New Year's Day, were celebrated, but without great joy..." – Fewer commas? "Christmas 1879 and New Year's Day were celebrated but without great joy..." or "Christmas 1879 and New Year's Day were celebrated, but without great joy..."

Ice journey
 * "called the point of landing "Cape Emma"..." – Perhaps add "after his wife".

Storm and landfall
 * " The storm had largely subsided by the morning of September 14, but progress was slow, and it was three more days before, on September 17, the cutter ran aground... " – I think you could delete "on September 17" without harm.

DeLong party
 * "He noted the deaths of Kaak and Lee on October 21, Iverson on 28th, Dressler on 29th." – Amend slightly to "the 28th" and "the 29th".

Aftermath
 * "They were welcomed as heroes, given a civic reception and a banquet at the famed restaurant Delmonico's." – Insert "and" after the comma?
 * The civic reception and the blowout at Delmonicos were separate events. I am tinkering with the wording. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Other
 * I fixed a few of the screechy red sfns; in each case, the problem was caused by one erroneous digit in a publication date. The three remaining problems need additions to the "Sources" section, as I'm sure you already know.
 * I have fixed two additions, can't see the third – can you identify? (I don't get red screeches) Brianboulton (talk) 20:58, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You got them all. The red ones were citations 37, 127, and 129. The latter two were fixed at the same instant when you added Melville to the "Sources" section. The red ones don't literally screech (make a noise); it just feels that way to me. Finetooth (talk) 23:05, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * That's all I've got to say except that I really enjoyed reading this fine article. I have no doubt it will advance to FA when nominated. Please let me know when that happens. Finetooth (talk) 18:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I am most grateful for these kind words and suggestions, most of which I have acted on.Many thanks for your interest and help. Brianboulton (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Dr. Blofeld
Sorry I missed your last FAC Brian but I was taking a break from the process!


 * In the lede: " He persuaded James Gordon Bennett, Jr., the proprietor of the New York Herald, to finance a polar expedition based on the untried Pacific route. " -do we know the date?
 * They corresponded over a period of time, and met in 1877, so a specific date isn't appropriate. But I have reconsidered the word "persuaded", and replaced it with "encouraged" which is  more accurate.


 * Can you add the state too for Annapolis, Maryland and link Annapolis, Maryland fully?
 * In Petermann "In the year before he took his own life in 1878" -I'm not sure whether you are saying 1878 was the year he took his life or it was the year before he took his life.
 * I hope this is clarified now. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Ship-, "De Long went to England, where he found Young's Pandora on offer at $6,000" -where was this, Portsmouth, Southampton?
 * Sources don't say. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Should big cities like San Fran and W. D.C. really be linked?
 * Perhaps not, although there are conflicting opinions about his. Will ponder further. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Voyage- I notice that you say " eleven-gun salute" yet use digits for 100 and 15 further down, numbers greater than nine.
 * 69°10'N, 176°6'39'W -a footnote with actual coordinate links here might be useful so readers can check the location if they really want to. I see there's further coordinates further down. Perhaps Brian you could collect all of the coordinates mentioned and add a note with the links all in one?
 * I'm not convinced of any real advantage of doing this, but I'll see if I can think of a way. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * What's the point in stating coordinates and position then if people can't actually see where it is? The figures are rendered useless to most readers unless they can actually view where it is.♦ Dr. Blofeld  09:41, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You have a point. However, of the four sets of coordinates given in the article, only the last, which gives the position of the sinking, is of any significance to the story, and that is supported by a map which indicates the geographic location precisely. I'm inclined to drop the other three, which don't add anything and in my view are not worth setting up complex external links for. I'll leave it a day or so before I finally decide what to do. Brianboulton (talk) 18:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)


 * De Long party "On September 28 the party found a large hut, " -do we know where this was?
 * No – they were lost, using unreliable maps. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Melville "substantial village" -wouldn't that be a town, or simply a "large village"?
 * Aftermath- Moscow, Berlin, and Hamburg are large cities which like New York shouldn't really be linked.
 * Link Annapolis, Maryland like in the lede
 * Delink Greenland, I don't think such a large place needs linking.

Interesting read with some good geographical references in there.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:28, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your time and comments. Still thinking about delinking and presentation of cordinates. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Support, sound job. was always insistent on not linking major cities, I'm surprised he didn't say anything.♦  Dr. Blofeld  09:36, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Err...we don't "support" at peer review, but your sentiments are appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 10:23, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Haha I was thinking it was at FAC! I usually miss your peer reviews ;-)♦ Dr. Blofeld  19:29, 3 September 2015 (UTC)