Wikipedia:Peer review/Jerry West/archive1

Jerry West
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I have been making some modifications and I think that this is almost at FA-level. However, I know there are a few things that need some nitpicking, but with how much I've tweaked the article any tiny issues I'll probably end up not seeing.

Thanks, Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 14:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments from Jappalang

Early life
 * "West was born as the fifth of six children of his mother ..."
 * "Born" is repetitious (considering the preceding sentence) and "mother" is redundant; just "West was the fifth of six children of ..." and so forth will do.


 * "... to his storage shed."
 * The neighbour's or West's?


 * "West spent years shooting baskets from every possible angle, ignoring mud in the backyard, his mother's lashes when he came home hours late for dinner, and playing with gloves when the ground was covered with snow."
 * The sentence structure seems incorrect... "ignoring mud ..., his mother's lashes ..., and playing with gloves ..."? He ignores "playing with gloves"?  This sentence should be rephrased.


 * "West spent his childhood days hunting, fishing, and playing basketball so often that the NBA acknowledged it as "obsessive"."
 * Does "obssessive" pertain to hunting and fishing as well? If it is restricted to basketball, it stands to reason that the obsession should be integrated with the previous sentence and the other two activities cast as extras.

High school
 * "West attended East Bank, West Virginia, High School from 1952–56."
 * Is that the actual name of the school? Would it not be more appropriate to say "a high school in East Bank, West Virginia, ..."?  Later sentences just state "East Bank High School".


 * "... due to his lack of height. However, Shaver emphasized the importance of conditioning and defense ..."
 * Drop "however"; it is inappropriate, considering that Shaver's lessons are not contradictory to West's benching for lack of height.


 * "He was named All-State from 1953–56, ... when he was named West Virginia Player of the Year, ..."
 * Should that not be "named to (the) All-State" or such? Also note the repetitive "named".


 * "... in a season, averaging 32.2 points per game."
 * "... in a season with an average of 32.2 points per game."


 * "... to hit high-pressure baskets."
 * I do not think a layman would understand a "high-pressure basket". I suggest "... to score while under pressure from opposing defence."

West Virginia Mountaineers
 * "More than 60 universities showed interest in West, ..."
 * The previous sentence never talked of graduation. It would be incredulous to assume he played in East Bank until 1999.  Work his graduation into the beginning of this section.


 * "... West Virginia University, located in Morgantown, West Virginia."
 * Considering that he stayed in West Virginia, attended a high school in the state, and about to attend a University named after the state, stating Morgantown is in West Virginia seems quite redundant to me.


 * "... member of the WVU freshman squad which won that achieved a flawless 17–0 record (all wins, no losses) ..."
 * Furthermore, "WVU" should be appended to the full name, which should be mentioned first, per WP:MOS.


 * I am not certain here, but would commas not serve to delimit the awards rather than semi-colons?


 * "The Mountaineers went 26–2 that year, ending the season with an 89–84 loss to ..."
 * Why is the score for the loss reported here? It serves nothing in my view and could prove confusing to a layman when a win-loss statistic is set in the preceding clause.


 * "The next season 1958–59 was even more successful."
 * To whom? The team or West?


 * "He tied the NCAA five-game tournament record ..."
 * What is the NCAA?


 * " He was named also Further awards were All-American ..." (to break the repetitiveness of "name")


 * "Later, he was named to be a member of the U.S. Pan American Games basketball team which won the gold medal."
 * "He was also picked to be a member of the U.S. Pan American Games basketball team, which won the gold medal."


 * "As a testament to his toughness, West once had his nose broken against Kentucky. Despite intense pain and only being capable of breathing though his mouth, he scored 19 second-half points and led WVU to an upset win over the Kentucky Wildcats."
 * The first sentence makes it seem he broke his nose to show himself as tough...
 * "West demonstrated his tenacity to the game in a match against the Kentucky Wildcats; an incident in the game broke his nose, but he continued playing despite intense pain and having to breath through his mouth. He scored 19 points in the second-half, leading WVU to an upset victory."


 * "In West's his final collegiate season ..."


 * "a call-up to the All-American selection, and being voted Southern Conference MVP"


 * "West's best performance was a 40-point, 16-rebound game against Virginia, in which he grabbed 16 rebounds and scored 40 points ."


 * "... he scored ... fifteen 30-point games."
 * That does not seem quite right to me (score a game?).


 * "In his career, West totaled 2,309 points and 1,240 rebounds."
 * Does this include his play in the NBA, or is this about his stint as a school player (which in this case, would it be for high school and university or just the latter)?


 * "West currently holds 12 WVU all-time records."
 * Generally, scoring records are easily broken; this would have to be cast for preciseness (WP:PRECISE).


 * "... co-captained the U.S. men's basketball team at the 1960 Summer Olympics which and won the gold medal."

"Mr. Inside" and "Mr. Outside"
 * "West then made himself available for the 1960 NBA Draft, ..."
 * This does not seem right, considering the Draft article states "A player who had finished his four-year college eligibility was eligible for selection. If a player left college early, he would not be eligible for selection until his college class graduated." West's graduation does not seem to be up for him to decide (although he can disqualify himself from the draft).


 * "... and was drafted with the 2nd overall pick by the Los Angeles Lakers, which were a relocated franchise in 1960. West became ... California)."
 * "... and was chosen by the Los Angeles Lakers as the 2nd overall pick." sounds better? Furthermore, I see no point in talking about Laker's relocation here (hence, dropping the entire bit in my suggestion).  There seems to be no relation about the move with West in any form.


 * "... with his vertical jump&mdash;he could reach up to 16 inches above the rim when he went up jumped &mdash;and his work ethic, ..." (the "with his" seem redundant)


 * "West won Schaus's trust ..."
 * This sentence, particularly with its placement in this section, makes it seem Schaus never trusted West at WVU. Is that the case?


 * "West won Schaus's trust and, alternating with Hundley, Selvy, and Leonard, played 35 minutes per game and established himself as the Lakers' second scoring option."
 * Break this sentence up. There are too many "and"s in there.


 * "These performances soon earned ..."
 * "Soon" is redundant.


 * "... to put away the Detroit Pistons;"
 * "Put away" is informal speech, inappropriate for an encyclopaedic article. Furthermore, the semi-colon should be a comma.


 * "... but then lost to were later defeated by the St. Louis Hawks in seven games, losing the final game 105–103." (eliminate the lost-losing repetitiveness)


 * "... the Lakers could only make had limited use of Baylor, ..." (eliminate POV and repetitiveness of "could only")


 * "... and could play only 48 games."
 * Was this a rule by the US Army, or was it because he had time only to play these number of games? This should be clarified and if the latter, I suggest simply rephrasing it to a separate sentence: "He played 48 games for the season."


 * "... a handle which that stuck with West ..."


 * "... hit several clutch baskets ..."
 * What are "clutch baskets"?


 * "The 1962 NBA finals would serve as the beginning of started the greatest rivalry in NBA history . " (cut down the fluff, note also the missing period)
 * The "greatest rivalry in NBA history" should be in quotes (at least "greatest rivalry" should be); is the phrase in the source (unable to check as current system is prohibited from accessing sports sites).


 * "Again, the Lakers reached the finals, and again, they battled faced the Celtics." (over dramatic)


 * "... Baylor and the Lakers fell back 3–2; then they succumbed in Game 6 in front of their home crowd with a 112–109 loss."
 * "... the Lakers were trailing three victories to two after the first five games. They lost the next game and thus the finals at home with a score of 112 to 109."


 * "As the game ended, veteran Celtics playmaker Bob Cousy threw the ball high into the rafters of the L.A. Sports Arena."
 * I fail to see the relevance of this to an article about West.


 * "In the following 1963–64 NBA season, West for the first time became the Lakers' scoring leader, outscored the rest of his teammates for the first time; his 28.7 points per game eclipsing was more than the 25.4 by Baylor, who stated that he suffered from knee problems."  (eliminate POV-ish term and noun plus -ing structure)

Leader of the Lakers
 * "... West averaged a career-high of 31.0 points, only which was later surpassed by perennial scoring champion Wilt Chamberlain." (eliminate POV-ish terms)
 * Based on Chamberlain's mention, is this a team record? If yes, it should be clarified.  If not, then why should Chamberlain be mentioned (since it implies someone else scored higher than West at that time)?


 * It is a bit disconcerting to read "L.A." when it is "Lakers" previously and elsewhere (and we are used to the use of team names instead of city). The same for Baltimore Bullets.


 * "... spectacularly took over Baylor's leader role as team leader, as he scored scoring 49 points and willed the shocked inspiring the Lakers to the win." (POV)


 * "The Bullets took their two home games, despite West scoring 44 and 48 points respectively, ..."
 * Ignoring the noun plus -ing structure in the second clause; this makes it seem the team depended entirely on West to score... that is quite POV-ish.


 * "... a figure that is still an NBA record."
 * Scoring records can be broken; best be precise as stated earlier.


 * "... the Celtics easily beat the ... which Boston easily won ..." (POV)


 * "... West scored 45 points, but Boston still won ..."
 * I fail to see the contradiction that implies West's 45 points should be a victory for the Lakers.


 * "West missed 14 of 15 shots and could not prevent yet another Celtics win."
 * Again... I am not that certain the entire destiny of the Lakers's team of more than 10 players soley depended on one guy.


 * "... whose size and speed created serious mismatch problems for the Lakers."
 * "Mismatch problems" is not really clear; might I suggest instead "... whose combination of size and speed could not be effectively countered by the Lakers."


 * "... willed themselves back to a close 95–93 ..."
 * This sentence, particularly the use of "willed", makes it seem that all they had to do was to think hard and the scoreboard changed to 95–93... Oxford dictionary: "chiefly formal literary intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen:"


 * "The following 1966–67 NBA season saw ..."
 * I think it was Andy Walsh or Ling.Nut who said that years (non-living objects) cannot see and should not be subjected to anthropomorphosis, which I agree with.


 * "... Butch Van Breda Kolff took over; under his reign, ..."
 * The semi-colon seems to be misused here. It should be a separate sentence.


 * "The 52 wins were accumulated despite West playing only ..."
 * I think there is a serious POV-ish tone (casting West as the sole instrument of victory for the Lakers) by this point in the article.


 * "But West, who had scored 38 points in a Game 4 win, had sprained his ankle and ... an injured West scored 35 points, but Boston won by three points."
 * As above...

Arrival of Wilt Chamberlain
 * Wilt Chamberlain is already linked earlier, unless that mention (link) is to be removed.


 * "... with Van Breda Kolff. Van Breda Kolff ..."
 * Repetitiveness


 * "... West privately complained to Bill Russell of exhaustion, ..."
 * Why would he do that? Were they buddies off the court?


 * "... lost the game 108–106 despite a triple-double 42 points, ..."
 * POV-ish casting


 * "West incredibly connected, ..." (POV)


 * "... the Lakers resigned Gail Goodrich, ..."
 * I think "resigned" is not the proper verb here.


 * "... West himself injured his knee and was out for the season; ..."
 * "... the team's next casualty was West, who was out for the season from a knee injury; ..." Baylor's injury was the team's loss, not West's.


 * "... championship-bound Milwaukee Bucks. The Milwaukee Bucks featured ..."
 * Repetitiveness

Late success and twilight years
 * What does "had a season for the ages" mean?


 * "West himself contributed with 25.8 points and leading the league with a career-high 9.7 assists per game, was named All-Star, All-NBA and All-Defense First Teamer and voted 1972 All-Star Game MVP."
 * This can be broken into simpler sentences.


 * "... the Lakers defeated the Chicago Bulls in a four game sweep, and then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks, and defeated them in six games."?


 * "Although West suffered a terrible shooting slump during Games 1 and 2, the Lakers tied the series at one win each, ..."
 * I do not see what is contradictory between Lakers' performance with West's own.


 * "In this game, he now had scored 4,002 playoff points, which set an all-time NBA record."
 * By the end of this game, he had scored a total of 4,002 playoff points in his career&mdash;an all-time NBA record."


 * "... due to a superb performance by Wilt Chamberlain, ..." (his game, not the person)


 * "... and he won the game and their first-ever NBA title."
 * West scored the last point (won the game)? "Their" can be construed to refer only to Chamberlain-West.


 * "Now having vanquished this long-time bane, ..."
 * This seems a bit over-dramatic...


 * "... and despite Chamberlain scoring 23 points and grabbing 21 rebounds, ..."
 * Now it is Chamberlain's turn?


 * West's speech on Cooke should be blockquoted or such per WP:MOS

Coaching and managing career
 * "... he led the Lakers of with their star center and former rival Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ..."?


 * "NBA.com credits ..."
 * Should there be a ".com"? Should it not be just NBA?


 * With that much acrimony between him and Cooke when he left the Lakers, how did he ended up hired in the establishment?


 * "... laid down the fundaments of foundation for the Lakers three-peat ..."


 * "West's Memphis stint with the Grizzlies was not as spectacular as his Los Angeles stint the one he had with the Lakers, ..."


 * "... a franchise which that was about to be sold ..."


 * "West himself won his second ..." (redundant)


 * "... to Chris Wallace, from Buckhannon, West Virginia."
 * I am not entirely certain why Wallace's origin has to be stated.

Legacy
 * "West ended his career ..."
 * Playing career?

Player profile
 * "However, contemporaries ..."
 * Drop "however": I do not think the views of West's fellow players at that time contradict with the previous comments of his abilities.

Personal life
 * "... they got divorced." (redundant)
 * Suggestion: "West married his college sweetheart Martha Jane Kane in 1960. They divorced in 1976."


 * "Jerry married his current wife Karen in 1978."
 * "West married Karen Bua in 1978." More encyclopaedic without problems of precision.


 * The Tweety Bird mention seem repetitive of the ones made earlier in "Mr. Inside" and "Mr. Outside". Maybe they should be joined together in one of the sections instead of split among the two.


 * Some parts start to read like a list of quotes.

NBA statistics
 * I think the statistics should be cited like any other section.

See also
 * The list seem overly long and "assists" and "steals" does not seem to fit in with West (I do not recall the article state that he had a highest assist, steal or such).

Images
 * Images are fine.

External links
 * Hoophall.com and Basketball-Reference.com are already linked in the Infobox. Why are they here again?  This would be over-promoting the links.

I always think of basketball, football, and such to be team games (the contributions of defenders who do not score highly should not be overlooked, and so-called main scorers are not always the highest scorers); please forgive me if I am quite irked to see players touted as the sole "saviours" in their biographies. I think a neutral (NPOV) article should not take such a stance (unless it is widely acknowledged the performance of a team solely depended on that player for that game). Otherwise, the article seems fine and mighty comprehensive for a basketball player. Note that I have not checked the article against the sources or the sources themselves. Jappalang (talk) 03:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. I'll look over everything and make changes over the next week or so. After re-reading the article it does seem a bit POV. As for the issue of individual vs. team, since basketball is only 5-on-5, individuals are more significant in that sport than, say, baseball or either football. Having said that I will try to tone those parts down. I also found a new bio on him written last year that seems to have some new information, particularly on the early life stuff, so I'll be doing some rewriting from that anyway. Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 05:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)