Wikipedia:Peer review/Johnstown Inclined Plane/archive1

Johnstown Inclined Plane
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because it's a fairly unique bit of technology and interesting enough to warrant substantial expansion. The goal is FA, although there are some concerns I have that should addressed before taking it to FAC, primarily "Is it comprehensive enough?" and "Should the "History" section broken up into subsections?".

Thanks, ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 04:17, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is almost comprehensive enough, and yes, the History section should have subsections, which make both reading and editing easier. I made one very minor edit, but perhaps I will return for more minor edits. Question: Westmont bought it? Make the Westmont the political subdivision, with a link, and provide an inline citation documenting when they did that. --DThomsen8 (talk) 15:26, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, for looking at it. I added a ref. I'm not sure I understand; do you want me to link "Westmont" to Westmont, Pennsylvania (which I've done twice, once in the lead and again in the "Design" section)? Also, any suggestions on the best way to separate the "History" section? ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 02:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I did not read carefully enough. I was looking at the mention of Westmont in the lede, and not where you are more specific, where you added an inline citation. --DThomsen8 (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for all of your hard work on this - I have watched this since removing some copyvio from it several years ago and am really glad to see it so much improved. Here are some suggestions for improvement with an eye to FAC. I also made some minor copyedits as I read. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:54, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Should the lead make it clearer that Johnstown is in the valley and Westmont is on the hill? Should the lead name the valley and hill? So It connects the city of Johnstown [in the Stoneycreek River valley] to the borough of Westmont [on Yoder Hill].
 * Added, but slightly modified as there are two rivers. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Two quibbles - since the article later says each car can carry only one automobile, should it be plural here? Also the word "across" seems odd in this context - would "up or down" work better? Capable of carrying automobiles, in addition to passengers, across a slope with a grade of 70.9 percent, the Johnstown Inclined Plane is the "world's steepest vehicular inclined plane".[3][4]
 * Changed the word. The incline can carry two autos, one on each car. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I would mention the major repairs / overhauls in the lead too, even if it is just something like "the incline had major renovations in YEAR, YEAR, YEAR and YEAR."
 * Added. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Design section - first two sentence start with "The Johnstown Inclined Plane..." - I'd change the second one for variety
 * Replaced with "funicular" ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Reading the newspaper article, the steps between the tracks were being removed in 1963, so I would add that year to the sentence to make it something like  There used to be a stairway between the two tracks with a total of 966 steps, however these were removed circa 1963.[7]
 * Added. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There are several reviewers at FAC who really dislike verb + ing constructions, so Two cars traverse the slope, one descending as the other is ascending to act as a counterweight. might read better as something like Two cars traverse the slope, as one descends, the other ascends and acts as a counterweight.
 * Changed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Is "While open to the elements..." clear enough or should it be something like "While the cars are open to the elements..." in While open to the elements, an enclosed seating area containing a bench is situated along one of the sides of the cars.[4] (if you add cars to the first part, can probably take it out of the second part)
 * Moved, also specified which side. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem sentence The cables connecting the cars [are?] 2-inch (51 mm) diameter, steel, 6×36 right regular lay wire rope. Not sure about the "..., steel,..." part - are both commas needed?
 * Tough one, I was taught to separate multiple adjectives with commas. Would moving "steel" to the end and saying "steel wire rope" be any better? ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that reads better - less choppy somehow, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Missing word? They are wound around a 3-short-ton (2.7 t), 16-foot (4.9 m) diameter drum [that?] connects the cars together.
 * Added ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Would ", while" be better than "and" here? The cable on the north track is 1,075 feet (328 m) long and the south cable is 7 feet (2.1 m) shorter.
 * Added ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Does not make sense to me Each car, and consequently the cables, can carry 15 short tons (14 t). Assume the 15 short tons is the load bearing capacity of the cars, but the cars themselves must weigh something in addition to their loads, so don't the cables need to carry more weight than the cars?
 * Clarified (or attempted to) ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Much clearer. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Should the fact that there are two stations be mentioned prior to this sentence? Operation of the incline is controlled via a foot pedal located in a booth in the upper station.[10]
 * I suppose I should, the question is where to put it and how to not make it overly obvious. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps in the lead - It connects the city of Johnstown to the borough of Westmont, with a station in each. ? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as subsections go, the first two paragraphs of History could be something like "Background and construction" and the last two paragraphs could be "Use"
 * Added subsections ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem sentence Common in Europe, the concept of the inclines was brought to the United States by immigrants who remembered them from their native lands, like the German, Slavic, and Welsh who settled near Johnstown.[5] The phrase "like the German, Slavic, and Welsh who settled near Johnstown." seems almost like it is referring to the native lands and not the immigrants themselves. I also think the adjective form is odd (so Germans, Slavs, and Welsh... would read better, or German, Slavic, and Welsh people if the adjective forms are what you want). I think making this active voice would solve many of these issues. So Inclines are common in Europe, and immigrants, like the Germans, Slavs, and Welsh who settled near Johnstown, remembered them from their native lands and brought the concept to the United States.[5]
 * Thanks, I wasn't happy with that sentence but couldn't think of a suitable alternative. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * End of the first paragraph of History needs a ref or two.
 * Added ref ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * General comment - might want to use "funicular" once in a while instead of inclines.
 * Used once more, looking for more oppurtunities ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Also might want to check for passive voice that can be easily made active voice.
 * The 2011 New York Times article says over 2,200 were killed in the Johnstown flood (and I have seen this figure elsewhere - not just over 2,000).
 * Changed...both the Baltimore Sun article and the ASME document are more specific with 2,209 causalities. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd use "up and down" instead of "across" in To provide easy transportation across the steep slope for the residents of the new community of Westmont, ...
 * Replaced ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Would just "opened" be OK (not "was opened") Also was the original name really "Cambria Incline Plane" and not "Cambria Inclined Plane"? See The Johnstown Inclined Plane was opened on June 1, 1891, then named the Cambria Incline Plane. if you get rid of the was, might be better as The Johnstown Inclined Plane opened on June 1, 1891, and was orginally named the Cambria Incline[d?] Plane.
 * Fixed typo; rephrased sentence ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I really liked both interior car shots, so I tried the double image template (and like the result). Hope you also like it.
 * Wow, I like it; I tweaked the caption to try and be more relevant ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I assume the stations also had to be modified when the change from double decker to single decker was made - if there is material to back this up, probably should be mentioned for comprehensiveness
 * I would assume so, but I have no sources that give specifics (and I don't even know how passengers boarded the in first place [maybe stairs from the upper deck or a separate boarding platform, who knows]) ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Could be clearer On March 17, 1936, nearly 4,000 people crowded on to the approach, the bridge, and numerous boats to escape to higher ground via the incline as the Stoneycreek and Conemaugh Rivers overflowed their banks.[10] perhaps something like As the Stoneycreek and Conemaugh Rivers overflowed their banks on March 17, 1936, nearly 4,000 people crowded on to the bridge, its approach, and numerous boats to wait and eventually escape to higher ground via the incline.[10] The problem is it is not super clear from the sentence as currently written what role the bridge, approach nad boats plat in relation to the incline.
 * Removed the bit about "boats" and "crowding", should read better now. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Did the buses ride on the incline, or did the passengers get off the bus, ride the incline up or down, then get on another bus to complete their journey?  From February 1938 to July 1953, the Johnstown Traction Company operated transit buses from Johnstown to Westmont via the incline.[16] 
 * The buses were placed on the incline. I have another newspaper source that also confirms that saying: "In the 1930's, fully loaded public buses were carried up and down the 14-ton capacity incline." ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I would make that clearer in this article. Perhaps use the quotation in something like ''From February 1938 to July 1953, the Johnstown Traction Company operated transit buses from Johnstown to Westmont; the "fully loaded public buses were carried up and down the 14-ton capacity incline."​[16] Ruhrfisch  &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Current operation section could use some sort of "as of 2011" statement somewhere
 * Added "As of 2011" to the fare data, seems most likely to change without notice. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem sentenced - "fares" is plural, but "is" is singular: The cost for a ride on the incline is $2.25 or $4 for a roundtrip; fares for automobiles to be transported by the incline is $6 one way.[24] 
 * Fixed ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I would rewrite Two hiking trails allow visitors to walk the slope; one of trails is a sculpture trail. The sculptures were created in 1989 by local artist James Wolfe from remnants of the Bethlehem Steel factory in Johnstown.[26] as something like Two hiking trails allow visitors to walk the slope. One is a sculpture trail, with works created in 1989 by local artist James Wolfe, who used remnants of the Bethlehem Steel factory in Johnstown.[26]
 * Replaced sentence. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I read a few of the refs - only thing I saw not mentioned was the one fatality which is referred to in the NRHP form.
 * Any suggestion on where to place that; I also have a source that mentions some equine fataliites as well.
 * I would mention the human and equine fatalities together. The only place in the whole article that now mentions horses is one sentence in History The cars used on the incline were originally double-deckers with horses and wagons riding on the main, upper deck and passengers riding in a compartment below; the cars were reconfigured into a single-decker design in 1921.[14] I would rewrite that to something like The cars used on the incline were originally double-deckers, but were reconfigured into a single-decker design in 1921. The double-decker cars had horses and wagons riding on the main, upper deck and passengers riding in a compartment below.[14] Followed by a sentence on fatalities like Accidents on the inclined plane have led to one human and several equine fatalities. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Added with a little more detail. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 20:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in all peer reviews, in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)
 * Please let me know when this is at FAC.
 * Well, I did review one from the backlog the other day, so...there ;-) Thanks, as always, for the thorough commentary. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 18:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I reread the NRHP form just now and it mentions the original cost to build it ($133,296) and the fact that over 40 million passengers rode it in its first 80 years or so. Both of those should be added. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Added both facts ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 20:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Last comments
 * Any idea how long the trip takes (if this is know from a RS, should probably be added to the article)
 * Added, 90 seconds. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 20:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * "is viewable" seems a bit awkward in  The mechanical room housing the incline's electric motor and hoisting mechanism is viewable from windows in the gift shop, the restaurant and the lobby of the visitor center.[25]  maybe "can be viewed" instead? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:04, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Reworded ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 20:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)