Wikipedia:Peer review/Josette Simon/archive1

Josette Simon


I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to nominate it as a Featured Article in due course. Any comments to help improve any aspect of the article are welcome.
 * Unfortunately there is no free image of Simon available. There might be a case for a fair use image, e.g. of her appearance in Love's Labour's Lost, but if not then perhaps the other image should be removed.
 * An editor has suggested on the talk page that the Personal life section "comes across a a bit promo-ish".
 * There are a few other sources available, but I don't think any of them are significant omissions, apart perhaps from The Rise of the English Actress by Sandra Richards - I'll take another look at that.

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Comments from mujinga
Hiya article seems in pretty good shape, I'm making minor copyedits as I go through it Mujinga (talk) 14:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Needs consistency on references, for example The Independent is wikilinked, The Guardian not
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm far from being a table expert, but the first table uses scope="col" which is advised for accessibility and the other tables don't
 * The other tables have been moved to List of performances by Josette Simon as per the feedback below. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I do get the "comes across a a bit promo-ish" re the Personal life section, purely becuase the sources are primary sources, would be better to reference them from secondary sources if possible
 * Trimmed, and secondary sources added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * "and has been cast as Chief Commissioner Camberwell in the Anansi Boys, which was in production as of May 2022.[54]" - that "as of" could be updated with more recent info
 * There doesn't seem to ba any update yet. It appears to still be in post-production. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I think the lead could be fleshed out a bit more, which is easy to say! I guess the theatre work is covered well, so the television/radio/film work could have another sentence or two.
 * I've added a bit. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * shame about the lack of images, perhaps add one of a building, such as a theatre?
 * I couldn't think of one that was particulary relevant, but more images would indeed be nice. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * the filmography section is quite big so you could consider spinning it off into other articles
 * Done, as mentioned above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * DoB not in infobox?
 * No, see the hidden comment that refers to WP:BLPKIND. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC) In Performing Women, Simon is quoted as saying "Professionally, I've always liked people to know about me in terms of my work, but I don't like bringing the private into the public or the personal into the professional. ... As a child, I was a silent person and that need to be private has remained. Whatever is going out to people, I don't like people knowing much about me." (p.72) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * As a final comment I guess I'd prefer a bit more on her legacy/impact, but if the sources aren't there then that's not possible
 * I thought it would be easy to find others citing her as an influence, but I failed. I've added something (not very specific) from Richards (1993). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

There's a few comments for you, hope they are useful Mujinga (talk) 14:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * PS the block quote doesn't need quotation marks per MOS:BLOCKQUOTE Mujinga (talk) 15:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your review, . I've acted on most of the points, as noted above. Let me know if you have anything else. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice one it looks good, spinning off List of performances by Josette Simon works. Since I made these comments, I have come across User:Lingzhi2/reviewsourcecheck which is a helpful plugin to check references at FAC level. If you don't know it, I'd recommend it; here it suggests:
 * Missing first name for: O%27Connor; Missing Publisher for A Directory of Shakespeare in Performance 1970–2005.
 * A few links could be archived
 * A few fixes in the bibliography
 * Mujinga (talk) 13:15, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, . That script is useful. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Comments from SusunW
I'll take a look at her, but with the caveat that I know absolutely nothing about acting, film, stage, etc. other than that I like live performance and didn't have a television until 3 years ago. Initial comments, more to follow:
 * How can there not be images? She's an actress, surely she has an agent who would be thrilled to promote her and provide a publicity photo. I am not good at the technical part of what we need, and who I typically ask to help with photos is crazy busy in real life right now, but I'd try to find an e-mail for her or her agent and just ask. We've had a lot of success doing that.
 * I contacted her agency, who were really helpful, but the forwarded pemission from the photographer wasn't acceptable and the photographer did not respond to later requests. (see Commons discussion). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ugh! SusunW (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Lose the tables. In my first FA review discussion, someone suggested inputting a table and the response was "If there had been the suggested table when this article was introduced at FAC I would have opposed its promotion, and I suspect many others would have done too." So perhaps her performances should be split out like List of performances by Richard Dreyfuss and the awards section converted to prose? SusunW (talk) 16:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done - almost - I've kept the awards table but there's a new List of performances by Josette Simon. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Seems odd and lacking context for the (born 1960) to be missing from the lede. But maybe it's justified because of "agism bias" against actresses?
 * See my reply to mujinga above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * ¶ 1 The first black woman in an RSC play and ¶2 Her first leading role at the RSC, the first for a black actress seems redundant. Is it making a distinction? Okay, looking at several sources, it seems these are two firsts, #1 first to appear in a play (1982) and first leading lady (1985). Perhaps adding dates would help or perhaps rewording it slightly to make the distinction clearer.
 * I've moved it in the body which hopefully makes it clearer, and tweaked the lead. (I did double check about Alphonsia Emmanuel; her RSC debut was in 1983 as far as I can see from the performance database.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Perhaps link Leicester, I don't think it is probably well known outside the UK.
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * To avoid repetition of Leicester in the 2nd sentence, I'd probably say "moved to Britain" and link it to Windrush generation.
 * Done (except "UK" instead of Britain). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Lede seems to focus only on stage roles, covering her other work in a single sentence She has played numerous other roles across stage, television, film, and radio. Perhaps this needs to be expanded?
 * I added a few other roles. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Alderman Newton's Girls' School is missing the ' after girls.
 * Fixed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * After first use of Royal Shakespeare Company you should insert (RSC). Possibly locals call it that and recognize it, but I actually found myself searching back up to figure out what the acronym stood for.
 * Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * had been an early influence why not just were?
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * In the Royal Shakespeare Company section, we again have repeated bits about first black actress. You should treat it however you resolve the issue in the lede, to make it clear these are two separate firsts.
 * Amended as mentioned above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Remove the extra space before the " here: Nicolas Jones and Simon " the.
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * In "Other roles" section "in 1992" appears at both the beginning and end of the first sentence.
 * Fixed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Genie Awards Best Actress award can we lose the 2nd "award"?
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Link Dominican Republic
 * Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * mixed-race is a compound adjective and requires a - or you could just use multiracial.
 * Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Academic Claire Tylee considered that Simon's character was a "credible protagonist", the film was adversely affected by a mismatch between the thriller plotline from the production's originator Charles Pattinson and the thread about tensions in a mixed race family introduced by Winsome Pinnock, who has joined the project after Simon had already accepted the leading role based on a plot outline by Pattinson. is an incredibly long and complex sentence. Perhaps "Academic Claire Tylee considered that Simon's character was a "credible protagonist", but the film was adversely affected by a mismatch between the thriller plotline. After Simon had already accepted the leading role based on an outline producer Charles Pattinson pitched, scriptwriter Winsome Pinnock altered storyline to include tensions in the mixed-race family". Or something like that.
 * Your wording looks good to me - so I used it. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that's it for me. Overall, enjoyable read. Thanks for working on it BennyOnTheLoose. SusunW (talk) 18:03, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As I said about the lede, it seems heavily weighted to stage performances. I know nothing about television or film reviews, but it seems to me that major roles in TV/films should have more in-depth coverage.
 * Many thanks, . I've taken action on nearly all of your pojnts, as outlined above. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks good to me. You've struck a good balance and frankly, I like the new page of performances. It definitely gives a real sense of the breadth of her work. I'm happy to support it should you nominate it at FA. Please let me know when you do that. SusunW (talk) 13:57, 15 May 2023 (UTC)