Wikipedia:Peer review/Judah P. Benjamin/archive1

Judah P. Benjamin
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because… I'm taking it to FAC and would like the usual creative feedback.

Thanks, Wehwalt (talk) 04:51, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley
First lot – to the end of "Attorney General and War Secretary". Leaving lead till last, more meo. More soonest. I'm enjoying this. –  Tim riley  talk    09:18, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Louisiana lawyer
 * "seller of a slave, whom the buyer alleged …" – this gets tangled up in itself, with the "whom" at first seeming to refer to the slave rather than the seller. Perhaps something on the lines of "he successfully represented a client against the charge of selling a slave despite knowing him to have incurable tuberculosis"?
 * State politician
 * "Benjamin's mother Rebecca, who he had brought to" – I'd go for "whom", unless you feel it is nowadays too starchy to be borne.
 * "Millard Fillmore, who succeeded Taylor after his death earlier that year" – perfectly clear what you mean, but some clever soul at FAC will assuredly point out the ambiguity of wording.
 * Mexican railroad
 * "the New York Times" – two points: first, is a blue link wanted here? And secondly, two paras later you capitalize and italicize the definite article in the paper's title. The latter is my own preference, though there are some editors, not wholly depraved, who prefer the former.
 * "the new Republican Party, a group pledged to oppose the spread of slavery" – how very interesting for a European to discover that the Republicans started as the good guys. I had no idea.
 * Secession crisis
 * "it behooved the latter" – this spelling looks most peculiar to a Briton's eye. I have a vague idea that "behoved" is also acceptable in AmEng, and if so, I'd go for that.
 * "According to a letter that Benjamin is reported to have written in January 1861" – is it the authorship or just the date of the letter that is "reported"?
 * Attorney General and War Secretary
 * "Meade noted … William C. Davis notes". Too many notes, my dear Mozart.
 * "Although it was revealed…" – this sentence appears to have seceded from the one after it, leaving the "Although" without a subsequent antithesis.

Second and concluding lot from Tim
 * Basis of Confederate foreign policy
 * "The London Economist wrote in 1853" – a statement calculated to raise a total of four eyebrows, viz those of B Boulton and T Riley, the former because, as Brian has occasionally had to remind me, papers do not write themselves and the latter because the word "London" has no place within the link to The Economist. I wouldn't object to "The London Economist.
 * obiter dicta: "England would feel the shock from Land's End to John O'Groat's" – can you wonder that there is a Scottish Nationalist movement when London papers so arrogantly used "England" as a synonym for "Britain"?
 * I am changing a lot of "England"'s to "Britain" throughout from the sources. Obviously not being a native speaker :) ... well, that's why we have peer review.


 * "playing poker and faro" – I think Wikipedia editors (me included) often overdo the blue linking but I really think faro looks naked without one.
 * Early days (1862–1863)
 * "unless the prisoners Palmerston government would go to war" – words missing here
 * "Benjamin had not been allowed to offer the inducement for intervention that might have succeeded—abolition of slavery" – this puzzles the reader (i.e. me) unfamiliar with the subject. If the Confederacy had abolished slavery what would have been its raison d'etre?
 * Well, the Confederacy always said that it wasn't about slavery but independence. So did the North, until the Emancipation Proclamation.  The slaves were going to be freed if the South lost, anyway.


 * "The Pope, though impressed by Mann's oratory" – how do we know His Holiness was impressed? It isn't usually the sort of thing a pope or his spokesman would say, at least not on the record or in public.
 * I've consulted the underlying source, and while there is a fascinating bit of back and forth, I don't find "impressed" necessarily supported, though Meade does use the word. Toned down.


 * "For the entertainment of his companions, Benjamin recited Tennyson's "Ode on the Death of the Duke of Wellington"" – I bet that cheered them up no end.
 * I'm more curious about the national causes that were victories after being in far worse shape than the Confederacy per April 1865, with Lee down to a corporal's guard and Davis fleeing Richmond.


 * Exile in England
 * "to shape his old course in a country new" – I like this phrasing very much, but I'll give you odds that some puritanical ninny will object at FAC that the prose is too purple.
 * I'm alluding to Kent's farewell in King Lear. It was irresistible. I.i.186 if you want to look it up.
 * Damn and blast and several other naughty words! I should have spotted that. On the other hand it is no small compliment to you that what I thought was Wehwalt's prose is in fact the Bard's iambic pentameter.  Tim riley  talk    14:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I will confess to some delight in sneaking that one by you. If I must plagiarise, why not the best?--Wehwalt (talk) 14:24, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * "resuming his legal career as a British barrister" – I hesitate to engage in legal quibbles with a practicing lawyer, but this jars on British ears. As you know, the Scots have their own legal system, and Benjamin was a member of the English bar, not the non-existent British one. I realize this may be an unnecessarily pedantic point for any American readers but I think I must make it.
 * I'm glad you did as I was uncertain on this point. I'll make changes.


 * "transport to Liverpool by blockade runner" – perhaps blue link my native city?
 * "penning columns on international affairs for The Telegraph" – must have been The Daily Telegraph, as there wasn't a Sunday Telegraph till I was a lad (which, before you ask, was later than the 1860s)
 * "became a classic both in Britain and America" – a very fiddly point, but oughtn't this to be "in both", rather than "both in"?
 * "but Benjamin was not included; it was said that he had applied." – not sure of the import of this. Is it that in those days openly canvassing for silk was taboo (as with membership of the Athenaeum etc) and that he had therefore shot himself in the foot, or just that it was rumoured that he had tried and failed?
 * The source is vague on this point. I will look into it more.


 * "claimed to be Sir Roger Tichborne, a nobleman who had vanished some years previously, and had perjured himself" – now this really is ambiguous. How about "…vanished some years previously; Castro had perjured himself…"?
 * "a streetcar in Paris" – news to me that Paris ever had streetcars (if by streetcars you mean what we call trams over here). I may be entirely wrong about this, but I just flag it up. Will grovel appropriately if shown to be in error.
 * You are right, it says tram. I was simply desirous of using synonyms, with a view to polishing off serial numbers and whatnot.


 * Appraisal
 * "It is true that I am a Jew…" – I reckon he pinched this from Disraeli. I'm sure I read something very like this while we were doing our research for Dizzy.
 * Most likely. They did meet but I am looking for something solid on that point.  Remember, there is no evidence that JPB actually said it.

Those are my detailed comments. The one general point I want to make is that neither in the lead nor the main text do you mention Benjamin's unique sequence of nationalities. British subject – US citizen – Confederate citizen? – and then what? Did he once more become a British subject? I really do think this point worth following up. That apart, "In every age, a heroic sage struggles to rescue Benjamin from obscurity" – that heroic sage is plainly Wehwalt now. I shall enjoy being associated with a sagacious hero. Nor will you fail. I enjoyed every moment of this piece. I don't know how much I ended up liking the man, but he's a fascinating subject. –  Tim riley  talk    12:38, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Lead
 * "British barrister" – despite my pedantry above, I think this will pass muster in the lead.
 * Thank you for your rapid review (I only finished in the wee hours and the rough spots are still apparent). He was a British subject by birth as his parents were British and he was born on (temporarily) British soil. He made the point in his petition in 1866 that he had no choice about becoming American as he was naturalised as a minor, and so never renounced his original allegiance. That apparently passed muster at Lincoln's Inn (I am looking for a statement on the irony of LINCOLN's Inn being the choice of the Confederate SecState.  I think I read someplace that Lincoln thought he was descended from a foundling left at Lincoln's Inn, rather than from the county or town.) I did not want to put nationality both because it changed, repeatedly (if one grants "Confederate").  I will make other comments and implement changes during the course of the day.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:03, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I've got everything. Thank you for your review and kind words.  I'm not just being modest. I do not feel adequate to try to really convey Benjamin to the reader.  But in my opinion, no one has successfully, so I take some consolation.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:31, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments
 * "referred to other great national causes": This is in quotes so I won't mess with it, but it looks like there's a "he" missing.
 * I copyedited the article per my copyediting disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 15:13, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that. I have modified it slightly in two places and duplicated a citation where you split a paragraph.  Regarding the Mallory quote, I googled it and it's accurate.  If reviewers feel strongly about it, I can put a [he] in.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:48, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Thanks for reminding me about duplicating the citation when I split a paragraph, I keep forgetting that. - Dank (push to talk) 17:08, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments
This is my first batch, covering roughly the first half of the article. Very, very interesting – one of your best, I think (who would ever have thought that a bleeding-heart pinko like me would empathise with a slave-owning southern gentleman – well, almost?). My comments are mostly fairly small quibbles and shouldn't raise any difficulties:
 * Lead


 * The marriage, though lengthy, had little impact on his life and career, so I am wondering why it is thought lead-worthy
 * Cut.


 * "and resigned..." – say what he resigned from?
 * Clarified.


 * "Although there was not much to do in that position, he became Secretary of War." A couple of problems here. I think the intended meaning is that, as he was under-occupied as attorney general, he was able to serve as Secretary of War, but the "although" kills that; it should be "As...". Secondly,  "became" should surely be "was appointed"?
 * Rejigged.


 * Reference to the "State Department" – perhaps clarify for non-US readers that you mean the Confederacy's State Department.
 * Disambiguated.


 * "He made his way to Britain" should be "Benjamin made his way to Britain", since Davis is last person mentioned
 * Benjaminised.
 * Early and personal life


 * Briefly mention context of the "British occupation"
 * I mention the Napoleonic Wars. What beyond that do you suggest?


 * "boarded with relatives in Fayetteville..." – so others had gone before them. I'd recommend you mention this in the previous paragraph, e.g. "the Benjamin family moved to Fayetteville, North Carolina, where they had relatives".
 * They did have relatives there. I've mentioned that.


 * "The boy's intelligence was noted by others in Charleston as well..." last 2 words redundant
 * Re Yale: Benjamin left "without completing his degree" – unsurprising, given that he was only 16 when he left. Clearly, what we hink of as "higher education" was structured rather differently then. To avoid perplexing readers on this point, a brief explanatory footnote might be desirable.
 * Rather than degree, I've stated "course of study".


 * What was the nature of Natalie's conduct that scandalized New Orleans society
 * I can do no better than to give you De Ville at 84 n.12: "Try as we did for some ten years, no details of Natalie's "escapades" have been forthcoming, although Korn reports that rumors were still scandalizing New Orleans when he was doing research for his book [me: on the early Jews of New Orleans] in the early 1960s!" This is an epic. An utter epic.
 * Louisiana lawyer


 * "New Orleans became the fourth largest city in the United States by 1840 and one of the wealthiest": "became" and "by" don't match – "had become". Also, comma required after "1840"
 * Agreed.


 * "His biographer, Evans, denies..." – I'm not sure that "denies" is the appropriate word here (can biographers "deny" on behalf of their subjects?) Maybe Evans "argues..."?
 * "does not believe"? I'm open on this.


 * "successful in being chosen" is a circumlocution for "chosen"
 * Appropriately enough, given his membership in the chosen people!
 * State politician


 * Penultimate para: Try to avoid close repetition of "plantation" in third line
 * Subbed in the name.


 * Fourth para: "Benjamin's mother Rebecca..." → "His mother Rebecca..." – to avoid successive sentences beginning "Benjamin..."
 * I suggest you link "Electoral College", and also state what Taylor was elected president of, otherwise this sentence willl make little sense to most non-US readers.
 * Clarified.


 * "succeeded Taylor after the President's death..." – lower case "p"
 * Mexican railroad


 * Tiny point, but surely "already" is inappropriate in the last line? By the time of the Civil War the project was 10 years old!
 * Fixed. There is a lot more that can be said about Benjamin's involvement in this and other ventures, but I know it's holding up people wanting to get to the Civil War.
 * Election to the Senate


 * "Judah Benjamin was sworn in as senator from Louisiana on March 4, 1853, at the brief meeting called just prior to President Pierce's inauguration to enroll those beginning their terms". I think the last six words unnecessarily complicate the sentence and could go. If you want to keep thephrase, it would be better inserted after "called". I also think "a brief meeting" is preferable to "the brief meeting".
 * No, I agree. I wasn't fully happy with the phrasing.


 * "In the absence of the Vice President, they were sworn in by the senior member of the Senate, Michigan's Lewis Cass." I'd say this information is of marginal/neglible importance. It's a long article, and such side details could easily be removed without detriment.
 * Sliced.
 * Spokesman for slavery


 * "whereby the slaves" → "in which the slaves"
 * Link "mulattoes"
 * Both done.
 * Secession crisis


 * Why the redlink "in 1859"?
 * I plan to do United States Senate election in Illinois, 1859 in due course as part of my continued dancing around the Civil War with an eventual (possibly years hence) shot at a Lincoln FA.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:31, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thinking of non-WP readers, won't they be a little perplexed by a date given inexplicably in red? My advice would be to drop the link until there is something there to link to. Brianboulton (talk) 14:07, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sliced.


 * "The case concerned a land grant by the former Mexican government of California that had been ruled invalid by American authorities. Ambiguous – was it the land grant, of the former Mexican govt, that had been ruled invalid?
 * Rephrased.


 * "By the time Benjamin returned to the East Coast ..." – I don't think you need "in 1860"
 * Axed.
 * Attorney General and War Secretary


 * "At the first Cabinet meeting, Benjamin advised buying 150,000 bales of cotton for shipment to the United Kingdom..." It needs to be clear who he was advising to buy these bales. And, if I am understanding this transaction correctly, it is the profits rather than the proceeds that would be used to buy arms.
 * Modified slightly, but I think "proceeds" is correct. The money would already have been paid, for the cotton, in the South.  The funds in London would not have been reduced by that cost for purposes of buying cannon, ships, and whatnot.


 * A superfluous "But", fourth para third line
 * Consigned to the deep.


 * Re. Benjamin's appointment as Secretary for War, the lead indicates that he remained as attorney general; that should be clarified here.
 * Clarified.


 * "After Cape Hatteras was captured, Confederate forces had fallen back on Roanoke Island. If that fell, a number of ports in that area of the coast would be at risk, and Norfolk, Virginia might be threatened by land." This sentence doesn't fit the paragraph, which is otherwise concerned with conflicts arising from assertions of states' rights. It seems to belong to the next para.
 * It is meant to be a transition. Cape Hattaras is in North Carolina.  How is it now?


 * Another dubious "although" at the start of the penultimate para. "Although" means "in spite of the fact that", which does not fit the sentence
 * Dates are lacking in the latter part of this section. The last indicated date in the narrative is February 1862. the landing of Union troops at Roanoke. We need some timescale for the events that follow, up to Benjamin's selection as Secretary of State, which should be dated here, not in a subsequent section.
 * I've inserted the appointment date.

Back with more, soon, maybe tomorrow (public holiday) if it rains as promised. Brianboulton (talk) 15:57, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review. Your words in introduction really have brightened my day. I look forward to your thoughts on the final portion of the article, regardless of the weather.  I am giving some thought to a hike tomorrow as it is a holiday here as well, so you need not rush. I don't think it's going to rain.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:26, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Continuing (and concluding)
 * Basis of Confederate foreign policy


 * Close repetition of "reluctance" (near the end)
 * I would insert an "also" at the statrt of the last sentence
 * Both dealt with
 * Appointment


 * Minor verbosity: "not a great deal of" → "little"
 * Used in previous sentence. Dealt with alternatively.


 * Second para: rather repetitive, e.g. "Jefferson Davis" twice in quick succession. I suggest a contraction: "In addition to his relationship with the President, Benjamin was very close to the Confederate First Lady, Varina Davis, with whom he exchanged confidences regarding war events and the President's health."
 * Done.
 * Early days (1862–1863)


 * Not too happy with the first sentence whih is a little overcomplicated. Suggest full stop after "vessel", then "They were taken..."
 * However, do we need the whole detailed paragraph on the Trent affair, which predates Benjamin's secretaryship? I realise it is important to record the tensions between the US government and Britain that existed at the start of the Civil War, but I think this could be done more briefly. For example, "In October 1861, in what was known as the Trent Affair, a US warship  had forcibly removed two Confederate diplomats, James Mason and James Slidell,  from a British ship, and imprisoned them. Before the matter was resolved, Britain and the US had come close to war." Then follow on with your second paragraph (though you may have a better form of précis)
 * More or less done.


 * "hypocrisy in freeing slaves only where he had no authority" → for clarity, I suggest "only in the South, where he had no authority"
 * Perhaps "only in Confederate-held territory, where he could exercise no authority"? By then the Union had captured strategic bits and pieces of the South.


 * "That nation's officials..." is slightly ambiguous. Suggest "Britain's government..."
 * "and now saw an alternative reason for entering the conflict." – I would add "on the side of the Confederacy". Also, "additional" might be better than "alternative"
 * The intervention would have been facially neutral, but of course would have helped the Confederacy. I've reworked it slightly but I think contextually, it's pretty clear.


 * "deemed" and "deemed" in the penultimate paragraph
 * "offering to float": the passive form in which the sentence is constructed requires "who offered to float". Otherwise you could have "...the banking firm Erlanger et Cie approached Slidell, offering to float"
 * I've played with it. Deemed also dealt with


 * I'm not sure that the insertion "in French" is particularly relevant to the negotiations, and it rather interferes with the point about Memminger.
 * Removed.
 * Increasing desperation (1863–1865)


 * "deemed" again – favoured verb?
 * Changed to "believed".


 * "A British agent for the Confederacy..." – I'm not clear as to the nature of this office; can you explain?
 * He was the financial agent for the Confederacy in Liverpool. Google gives some information about him, seems well worth a stub if I can find the time.
 * To the point: I've added "financial"


 * "and even sent" – unnecessary emphasis: "and sent..."
 * Massaged slightly.


 * "Confederate General Patrick Cleburne, of the Army of the Tennessee, in January 1864 proposed emancipating and arming the slaves." slightly odd construction; more orthodox, and better in my view, would be "In January 1864, Confederate General Patrick Cleburne  of the Army of the Tennessee  proposed emancipating and arming the slaves."
 * Done.
 * Escape


 * To what does "located in Richmond" refer? If it's "Shocko hill" the wording needs to be adjusted – but I'm not convinced of the enyclopedic natire of this information.
 * That is where Shockoe Hill is. It is to show Benjamin's continued good spirits.  As I don't really have a "personality" section, which would be quite problematical, I'm taking the opportunity.


 * Why Danville?
 * As I recall, it was the rail line that had not been cut, and that was in the direction of Lee's troops. Appomattox and Danville are both southwest of Richmond. I've added a bit to make this clear


 * "scooped up"? Not encyclopedic
 * Captured, then


 * "After the party reached Abbeville..." → "When the party reached Abbeville..."
 * The previous sentence begins with "when", so I've adjusted things


 * "his ship caught fire after departing St. Thomas..." – St. Thomas being where?
 * Good catch.
 * Exile


 * "Accordingly, Benjamin sought to shape his old course in a country new" – poetic, but unless it's an attributed quote, I don't think it's appropriate here, unfortunately
 * See my discussion with Tim above. I would like to keep the essence of this.


 * "He was reduced to penning columns on international affairs for The Daily Telegraph" Although this chimes well with my opinion of the dreaded Torygraph, I don't think "reduced" is realy the right word here. Most would consider the assignment a nice little earner.
 * I suppose, but it is a bit of a comedown from being a wealthy lawyer, US Senator, and power behind the throne of the Confederacy.
 * Well, you might be surprised to find (or maybe you wouldn't) how many of our recently great and good enrich themselves by writing for newspapers. Some have even given up active politics to become political journalists – they make more money that way. So I'd be inclined to rethink "reduced". Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * "it was said that he had put his name forward" – by whom and where?
 * Ah. According to his obituary in The Times (thanks to Tim for getting me this), "Having been admitted a Palatine "silk" for Lancashire, it was understood that he had applied without success for rank at the large creation of Queen's Counsel in January 1872; but a few months later he argued Potter v. Rankin ..." The discretion of The Times hides much, I suppose.  It's what I've got.  The biographers heavily rely on that obit.
 * It might be appropriate, then, as there is further information cited to the Times obit, to include an attribution in this paragraph. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * "Castro" was a name that the Claimant only used in Australia, and he called himself "Thomas Castro", not "Arthur". His real name was (almost certainly) Arthur Orton – it certainly wasn't Castro, and I think the text needs to reflect this, maybe by means of an alternative source.
 * My fault, I fear. The Times says "Thomas Castro, otherwise Arthur Orton, otherwise Sir Roger Tichborne, &c" Incidentally, do your Tichborne sources mention him at all?  I am sure he did not work cheaply on that one.
 * None of the sources still on my shelves mention it – possibly one of the books now returned to libraries referred to it briefly, and I missed it. It's still a mystery who employed Benjamin and who stumped up the cash. I may use your Meade source to add a line to the Claimant article, but I'd really like to get to the bottom of the story. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * À propos of nothing, Père Lachaise Cemetery was, I recall, the last resting place of Georges Bizet
 * I can guess whose grave gets more visitors, though as I said to Crisco, I plan to visit Benjamin's when I am in Paris next month.
 * Don't forget to look in on old Georges, while you're there. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I shall probably spend much of a day there, or at least an afternoon. It will certainly take some time to locate Mr. Benjamin, to begin with, although I have findagrave bookmarked and took photos of Evans' discussion of where Benjamin is.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Appraisal


 * "Those writing on Jewish history were reluctant to glorify a slaveowner, especially in the two generations following 1865, when the question of the Civil War remained an active issue in American politics, and reacted to Benjamin's story with 'embarrassed dismay' ". The lengthy subordinate clause rather destroys the clarity of the sentence. Suggest full stop after "politics, then: "Most reacted to Benjamin's story with 'embarrassed dismay' ".
 * I've reworked it.

That is it: most instructive and informative to the end. My personal view is that there are opportunities for reducing the 10000+ word count (some of which I have indicated) without in any way reducing the impact of the article. You may wish to consider this; otherwise, my points are relatively trivial and should not detain you long. Please keep me posted on the article's future progress. Brianboulton (talk) 14:07, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I am undecided as to when to offer it as sacrifice to the gods, as I have found FACs on significant topics whilst traveling to be a strain.
 * Articles often hang around for a long time at FAC these days. You obviously can't carry your Benjamin library around Europe with you, and may not be able to respond to everything quickly, but why not put it up, say, ten days or so before you're back in the US? That will reduce any delay in getting it through. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Probably so. I have several coins that can keep FAC in the meantime, leaving time for judicious cutting.  I think the background cotton section will regretfully have to be cut, Benjamin's actions as SecState simply do not justify a background section on King Cotton of that length.  Possibly the text can be spun off into one of the headnoted articles --Wehwalt (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Crisco comments

 * a Cabinet - why the capital C? This should be cabinet as a general noun if it applies to the Union, Canada, and Mexico as well
 * Senate - United States Senator redirects here, so this is a duplicate link
 * the Confederate State Department in March 1862 while Benjamin was being criticized for the Confederate defeat - can we avoid having two confederates?
 * Personally, I think it's odd that we don't have articles on the Confederate cabinet positions
 * I don't know how much could be said about them outside the more general articles, plus those on the incumbents.


 * Following a tradition followed ... could we massage this a bit? "Observed", maybe?
 * Love your hidden text after brit milah
 * Response to an early copyedit that improved the prose, but not the accuracy.


 * The boy's intelligence was noted by others in Charleston, one of whom offered to finance his education. - This may fit best with "a well-regarded school where his intelligence was recognized."
 * Yes, but there's no direct connection between Fayetteville and Yale.


 * Natalie St. Martin had scandalized New Orleans society by her conduct, - How? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:28, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I refer you to my response to Brianboulton's similar question, above.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:48, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That's... interesting. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:01, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * American adventurers who had tried to spark a rebellion against Spanish rule in Cuba - do we have an article on these men? I mean, Narciso López looks about right, but ...
 * I will look into the matter.
 * Yes, Lopez was one of them, the other was John Henderson (Mississippi politician). I can link them, if you think it worthwhile.
 * Great. Perhaps a footnote? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:36, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The New Orleans Picayune reported that Benjamin favored secession only in the last resort, but on December 23, 1860, another Louisiana periodical, the Delta, printed a letter from Benjamin dated the 8th stating that, as the people of the North were of unalterable hostility to their Southern brethren, the latter should depart from the government common to them. - May be worth splitting
 * Split.


 * that Benjamin is reported to have written during the crisis, -, reportedly written by Benjamin during the crisis, perhaps?
 * Yes, good.


 * to his Cabinet. - caps here as well, I think
 * to appoint a Jew - you are considerably more guarded in the lede, using "the first man professing the Jewish faith to be elected to the United States Senate" for both the Senate and the cabinet positions.
 * I've added the word "Jew" to the lede which I think takes care of the matter.


 * P.G.T. Beauregard - not to stir up a storm in a teacup, but I believe the MOS recommends spaces between initials (WP:INITS). Robert M.T. Hunter too. (Although this is under discussion)
 * I'm going to await the outcome.


 * the Federals - worth sticking to "Union forces" here? Don't think you've introduced the term yet
 * I was trying to vary the terminology.


 * Might be worth noting that General Wise did not fall at Roanoke
 * I'll look for a suitable way of making that clear without beating the reader over the head.


 * Do we have any images to break up the wall of text in #Attorney General and War Secretary?
 * Images are a bother here. I don't see the point in repeated portraits of Benjamin that vary little. I could move the Confederate $2?


 * developed during the first half of the 19th century, by 1860 used more cotton than the rest of the industrialized world combined. Continental Europe, though it used much cotton, - feels like these are contradicting each other
 * Why? Britain took a majority of the cotton, but that still left an awful lot for Europe.  I've taken that book back to the library so don't have stats, but the figures were very large.


 * Benjamin as Secretary of State - you mentioned SoS a few paragraphs back; might be worth linking there
 * His grave did not bear his name until 1938, - any reason why?
 * It's a family grave. The images I've seen of it only has the family name, St. Martin and something else.  I will be in Paris in late July and hope to visit it, take images, and place a stone on it per custom.


 * Did the Union ever try to hunt Benjamin down, or damn his memory? What was the Northern view of him? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Not really. What to do about the Confederate leaders was very controversial, and Andrew Johnson issued several amnesties, eventually pardoning most, that's covered in his article.  In my view, today's leaders could learn something about reconciliation from them. And Benjamin had a legitimate claim to being a British subject, and they were not going to abduct him.  Extraordinary rendition is for another era.
 * I should add that there was speculation, and I say again speculation, that Benjamin not making QC through the normal process and not being made a judge despite his eminent qualification, was because of not wanting to offend the US. But I don't think it's solid enough to include in the article.


 * That lead image does not do justice to Benjamin. I can probably make something out of File:JPBenjamin.jpg that's worth having in an FA. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:48, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I've boldly replaced it with this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:52, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What do you think of this image of the 36th Congress? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:58, 27 May 2014 (UTC) On Commons
 * The room in which he stayed at Gamble Mansion (on Commons)
 * Depiction of Confederates being hanged, including Benjamin
 * I saw those. I didn't really see what they would add to the article.  Apparently there is a plaque to Benjamin at the Gamble Mansion, regrettably I have no travel plans which involve Florida any time soon. Regarding the Brady Congress one, I'm not sure it adds much.  As for the hanging one, at thumbnail size, I don't see how it helps the reader.  I've seen a couple of drawings of Benjamin in his barrister's gown, if it was a photograph, I'd take my chances since I think a strong case could be made the photographer would be dead by 1944, but a sketch could be post mortem.  I will keep looking as opportunity presents itself.  I would like one, certainly.  I don't want to put in images for the sake of having images.
 * Leaving aside the image question, I think that's everything. I've decided to defer bringing this to FAC for a cycle to allow for more feedback, and the cutting recommended by Brianboulton and also to look for more images.  I have four coin articles to spend that are more or less ready for FAC, I'm letting one of those go first.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:59, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you think this would be defensible? 1876 to 1943 is, hum, 67 years and a photographer would have to have been quite young and made old bones.  There is the issue of publication though.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:10, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * For Britain, publication is a moot point. Commons is currently allowing images which are not in the PD in the US owing to the URAA to be uploaded, so essentially the main issue would be British copyright. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:36, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks on both. I think I'll add it and let the naysayers decide if they want in on this one.--Wehwalt (talk) 05:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps provide a footnote that Oscar Straus was the first person of the Jewish faith to be a member of the US cabinet? Just a suggestion. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:18, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Added as See Also.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)