Wikipedia:Peer review/Juha Vainio/archive1

Juha Vainio
This peer review discussion has been closed. Translation of a Finnish-language featured article. Comments would be welcome on what to do to improve it to GA/FA level. Thanks, Jafeluv (talk) 01:04, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: This is quite interesting, broad in coverage, and generally well-written. It's not yet ready for WP:GAN, but it is not far from being ready. Here are suggestions for further improvement:

Infobox
 * The "age 72" after his birth date seems strange. He was 0 when born, although that was indeed 72 years ago. Perhaps just using the birth date would be more clear.
 * Removed. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Lead
 * Since this is the English Wikipedia, it would be nice to have all of the song titles translated into English and placed in parentheses after the Finnish titles. Ditto for book titles, album titles, or anything else in Finnish throughout the article.
 * All done, I think. Let me know if I missed something. Jafeluv (talk) 00:05, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The nickname was never used by itself, but always as "Juha Watt Vainio". - Suggestion: "The nickname was never used by itself but always as part of "Juha Watt Vainio".
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

School
 * "In the end, the only subjects Vainio thrived in school were singing and sport." - Slightly smoother might be "In the end, the only school subjects in which Vainio thrived were singing and sport."
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "Juha Vainio practiced sport since childhood, even though he suffered from heart problems before the surgery." - Slightly smoother might be "Beginning in childhood, Juha Vainio practiced sport even though he suffered from heart problems before the surgery".
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

First contact with music
 * "started hanging around in musician circles" - Since "hanging around in" is slang that might not be clear to everyone, perhaps "began socializing with musicians" would be better.
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "while Vainio liked schlager music" - Link to Schlager and maybe add (hit) after schlager in the text?
 * Added a link, but I don't think adding "(hit)" would clarify the type of music enough. Maybe it's better that the reader follow the link for clarification. Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "Many of Vainio's friends eventually ended up in his song lyrics." - Since they didn't physically enter his lyrics, maybe "Many of Vainio's friends eventually were described in his song lyrics"? Even better would be active voice: "Vanio's song lyrics eventually included descriptions of many of his friends". Or something like that. I'm not sure what sorts of things he included.
 * Changed to "Vainio later described and named many of his friends in his song lyrics." Jafeluv (talk) 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "In autumn 1957 Vainio was called up into the army." - I'd suggest adding his age here too, which I calculate to be 19. The next sentence mentions seventh grade, the meaning of which differs from country to country. In the U.S., for example, someone in the seventh grade would likely be closer to 12 or 13 years old than 19 and much too young for the army.
 * Added age. Removed the seventh grade since it can be confusing and it's already specified that he was on the second to last year of gymnasium. Jafeluv (talk) 05:52, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * "In autumn 1957 Vainio was called up into the army." - Could it be explained what "called up" means. He does not seem to report for duties until 1964.
 * Clarified, I hope. Jafeluv (talk) 22:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Fatherhood, work as a teacher, and military service
 * This section head could be tightened to "Fatherhood, teaching, and military service".
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "when Juha started his studies there" - Could you add the name of the school he attended?
 * Added. Jafeluv (talk) 00:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Breakthrough
 * "As a young man he trained to play music wanting to become a professional musician." - The music didn't want to become a musician. Smoother would be "As a young man he trained to play music because he wanted to become a professional musician."
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The last part of the first paragraph of this section lacks a source or sources even though it includes statistics and other information that is not common knowledge. My rule of thumb is to provide a source for every set of statistics, every unusual claim, every direct quotation, and every paragraph (except, usually, the lead paragraphs). It's OK to source things in the lead, as you have with the 2,400 songs, but the usual pattern is to source them in the main text and then not source them in the lead since they are sourced in the main text.
 * Referenced. Jafeluv (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, the lead says "over 2,400 songs" but in this section the text says, "approximately 2,500 published songs". Even though the words "over" and "approximately" allow some leeway, would it be better to use the same number in both places?
 * Added a ref and changed to "over 2,400", which is what the source says. Jafeluv (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * "which became the breakthrough recording of The First." - Should "The First" be linked or briefly explained?
 * Added "pop group" for clarification. We have a dab page for The First, but unfortunately no article for the band. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "However, Vainio was often late from arranged studio sessions" - I think you mean "was often late for" rather than "was often late from".
 * Changed. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Back to teaching
 * "He had a habit of coming up with very unorthodox methods of punishment. In general he got on very well with his pupils." - Examples would be helpful, and what is the source for these claims?
 * Could not find sourced examples, but added a reference. Jafeluv (talk) 08:53, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Alcohol use
 * "Vainio's deteriorating family relations are considered to be one reason for his drinking." - Needs a source since it could easily be the other way round; that is, his drinking caused family problems.
 * Referenced. Jafeluv (talk) 08:53, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Changes
 * "The B side of the single was "Pokkana ja paikallaan" - Hyphenate "B-side" and link to A-side and B-side?
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Death
 * "mixed with his pastilles" - Link pastille?
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "He died of a heart attack in his home in Gryon, Switzerland, on 29 October 1990, in the hands of his wife." - It would be hard for him to die literally in her hands. Perhaps "in the arms of his wife"?
 * Fixed. The Finnish idiom uses "hand" -- that's what I get for translating word by word :) Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "One day before he died, Vainio had become friends with ice hockey coach Juhani Tamminen... " - Unclear. Did he become friends with Tamminen only one day before he died, or does the "one day" only refer to the dinner?
 * Changed to "The day before he died". Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "The following week Tamminen found out that Vainio had died from a friend of his who had read about it in a newspaper in Finland." - Smoother would be "The following week Tamminen learned of Vainio's death from a friend who had read about it in a Finnish newspaper."
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Legacy
 * Some of the whole paragraphs and later parts of paragraphs in this section need citations to reliable sources.
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 23:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

References
 * The article depends heavily on the two books. This may not be a problem at the GA level, but it probably will be if you intend to take this to WP:FAC eventually. To meet the requirement there that the article be comprehensive, you'll need to make sure that the research is comprehensive, that nothing important has been ignored, and that the views presented are balanced.

Further reading
 * If these works are important, should they be cited in the text?
 * At some point perhaps, and taking into consideration your comment above they're probably good candidates for additional source material if we ever get to FA level. For GAN we'll probably want to focus on improving the existing text first, though. Jafeluv (talk) 22:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * English translations of the titles would be helpful.
 * Done. Jafeluv (talk) 21:07, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Layout
 * File:Juha Vainio ja Keijo Laitinen 1960-luvulla.jpg overlaps two sections, which is a layout no-no. Would it work better in one of the big sections higher up in the article?
 * Moved it into the breakthrough section, which mentions the same song as the caption. Moved Eino Grön down to the alcohol use section as he's mentioned there. Jafeluv (talk) 00:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Other
 * The article ends with a lot of very short sections. I think it would be good to merge some of this material with earlier sections and to avoid repetition. For example, "Many of the characters in Vainio's songs were based on his real friends." This is in the "People and places" section but simply repeats something said earlier in the article and could be deleted from "People and places". It would not be hard to move the rest of "People and places" into other sections and eliminate it altogether.
 * Merged the "People and places" section elsewhere. Also, I'm not sure whether a separate section is needed for the nicknames and pseudonyms. They're already pretty well covered in the lead and in the biography section. Jafeluv (talk) 07:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog at WP:PR; that is where I found this one. I don't usually watch the PR archives or check corrections or changes. If my comments are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 21:53, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the thorough review. Jafeluv (talk) 22:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)