Wikipedia:Peer review/Justina Szilágyi/archive1

Justina Szilágyi


The article is about Vlad the Impaler's second wife. Although the wife of a Wallachian prince and three Hungarian aristocrats, and a close relative of King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary, her life is poorly documented. I've listed this article for peer review because I need suggestions how to improve or expand it before FAC.

Thanks, Borsoka (talk) 09:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


 * A few comments from me. I'm sorry of they seem a bit harsh. Given this has achieved GA status, I might be being too harsh, and someone else may disagree. In the end, you do not have to listen to me as I am a non expert. On the other hand, as a non-specialist I may be able to spot what is hard for a generalist to understand, and what would help make someone interested.


 * General: the article conveys a lot of detail, which is difficult to parse for someone at entry level. It feels like it needs simplification, if possible. Disputes and attempts to resuolve factual matters should be done in the background, not the foreground, IMO. There is an over emphasis on what, and not enough context to understand why.
 * Something about the kind of times and political situation is needed. What is the dynamic? Who is on the up, what powers are declining? Where does she fit in?
 * That said, there ought to be material to make a really interesting article here. This is the last wife of Vlad the Impaler, she survives and goes on to marry a string of men, seemingly by by choice. There's something going on here, she does not sound like an ordinary person, who would surely just break.
 * Lead: what is the theme of this persons life? What was she trying to achieve, what was she struggling against? How is she remembered? This indicates something: To strengthen her claim to her Transylvanian estates, she married Paul Suki, who was related to the former owners of those territories. Was that what she was trying to do? Or was she generally just married off for political bargains, and if so, by whom and for what purpose? Was she in fact quite independent, or only sometimes? Was this normal or unusual? Do we know anything about her education, beliefs, priorities? Was she just another noble on the make?
 * Probably, to the casual reader, the most interesting and scary thing is that she was married to Vlad the Impaler. OMG. And she outlived him, which sounds like a minor miracle. What on earth would that have been like?
 * Also, it is useful, to say in the lead that the sources are difficult and the information often patchy.
 * Early life is very confusing. Clearly it is complicated but IMO better to lose some detail than lose readers. Could some of it be moved to a footnote? Could the opinions be moved to a footnote, with the most plausible scenario left in the text?
 * First marriage Lots of bracked things, remove, footnote, optimise sentence flow. A map would help. I have a rough idea where these places are, but most readers I suspect will be clueless.
 * "Royal charters almost always referred to Justina as Pongrác's widow during the following years until her death" - why does this matter?
 * Second marriage This is again very hard to follow for the novice. What does this mean? "Hasan concluded that Kuritsyn obviously combined data about Vlad's two wives when writing his report."
 * This jumps in with no context that I can discern: Corvinus recognised Vlad, in 1475, as the lawful ruler of Wallachia, but he provided no support to Vlad in asserting his claim against Basarab Laiotă. What claim was this? Why did Vlad care about this? Why didn't Cornvinus support Vlad?
 * If Vlad was murdered, where was Justina? Why wasn't she bumped off too?
 * If we don't know, you could say something like It is unclear where Justina was when Vlad was murdered, or if her life was under threat.
 * It was mentioned in a deed issued by the Pécs Chapter on 10 September 1489, which also referred to "Justina, the widow of the late voivode Dragwlya". This I understand, but it seems like too much detail. Does this matter? if not lose it.
 * Here I have bolded what seems important: Vlad invaded Wallachia with Hungarian and Moldavian support forcing Basarab Laiotă to flee to the Ottoman Empire, in November 1476. Shortly after he was installed as voivode, he asked the burghers of Brașov to send carpenters to Târgoviște where he wanted to build his new home.However, Basarab Laiotă returned and Vlad was murdered in late 1476 or early 1477. The bit in the middle, why is it included?
 * Kuritsyn mentioned that Vlad had three sons. Hasan and Matei Cazacu proposed that Justina gave birth to Vlad's second son and namesake, who was the ancestor of the Hungarian noble Drakwla family. In contrast, Fedeles wrote that Vlad and Justina's marriage was childless. IMO this should be Historians do not agree if Vlad and Justina's had sons. Some believe their marriage was childless, others think the Hungarian noble Drakwla family is descended from them.
 * Third and fourth marriages
 * This para introduces people, the Erdélyi of Somkerék family, I know nothing about. Who are they, why do they matter?
 * In 1478, members of the Erdélyi of Somkerék family laid claim to Justina's castle at Gernyeszeg and the nearby villages. To secure her position, she married Paul Suki, a nephew of a one-time co-owner of the estate.
 * Why does marriage to Paul Suki, who sounds like a bit player compared with Vlad the Impaler, help secure her position? To me, knowing nothing, it sounds like she used to be married to Elvis Presley, and now she's gone off with the bloke playing guitar with his mates band down the pub.
 * Here I have bolded what seems to matter:
 * She was first mentioned as Suki's wife on 26 January 1479, but he died in the same year giving rise to disputes between Justina and his relatives.
 * Here: About two years later, Justina married John Erdélyi of Somkerék. He survived Justina, who died sometime after 13 June 1497. Why do we care who this is? Who is it? Why would she have married him, or he marry her? Jim Killock (talk) 23:15, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your thorough review and very logical remarks. I will try to address the issues you raised. Borsoka (talk) 01:22, 10 January 2024 (UTC)