Wikipedia:Peer review/Kahaani/archive2

Kahaani
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because we plan to take it to featured article candidacy. Some references are in bare format, which we would change. The peer review is largely for the structure and the prose.
 * Previous peer review

Thanks, Dwaipayan (talk) 22:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Note There are discrepancies in the reference formatting, and we are aware of this. Will work on making references consistent once prose and other issues are discussed.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:33, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Crisco 1492
 * Any sources for 1.4 million US$ being shoestring? If that's shoestring, then Indian films probably have bigger budgets on average than Indonesian ones.
 * Added two news reports (one from March 2012, and the other from January 2013) using the term shoestring. Bollywood indeed has quite big budget, as do Tamil and Telugu industries; but other Indian language film industries are probably not as big.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:55, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Shoestring budget is a single linguistic unit, so I'd put the ref after "budget" — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * often employing guerrilla filmmaking in streets - Feels like you're missing a word after filmmaking
 * Changed to guerrilla filmmaking strategy. Was in dilemma between strategy and technique.


 * paved the way - Not very formal, try a different wording
 * Simple "helped"


 * They barely escape a close brush with Bob - Does he attack them, or...?
 * No attack takes place. Changed to "escape an encounter"


 * He points his gun at Vidya to kill her, but is thwarted by the prosthetic abdomen which Vidya has been using to fake her pregnancy. - Pointing a gun at someone doesn't kill them. Does he shoot?
 * No, he does not shoot. Remved "to kill her"


 * Is Poltu's name really necessary? You could reword the sentence to avoid using it
 * Reworded to avaoid Poltu's name


 * Per WP:CASTLIST you should (re)consider including the plain cast list, as the key players are already identified in the plot section
 * Changed. However, kept small description of chracters that were not detailed in the plot.


 * "Aami Shotti Bolchi not only has interesting lyrics but also conveys the feel of Kolkata. The song is successful even if it expresses about only 20 percent of the local feel of Kolkata. Kahaani may not be a collector's item but it features right voices as per the overall mood of the album. Aami Shotti Bolchi and Ekla Cholo Re have the potential to fetch your attention." - Are these song titles in italics in the original? Also, this quote is rather long. Paraphrasing would be nice.
 * No, the italics were wrong. Now paraphrased the quote.


 * How does File:Ekla Cholo Re.ogg pass NFCC #8?
 * It does not. Removed it.


 * Consider splitting off the awards list like at List of accolades received by The Hurt Locker
 * Will do. --Dwaipayan (talk) 15:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.

— Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * was well-received by the public who expected it to be a good film that might do a moderate business at the best. - Everything after well-received by the public is confusing. Well received, but they expected it to be ho-hum?
 * Yes, that's what it meant; but, now I have removed that part.


 * a baby bump, - Not formal
 * Changed.


 * she often carried a sketch of her missing husband - surely not the actress' husband, but the characters.
 * Yes, added "on-screen"


 * The marketing section sounds like a couple of random reports were rewritten to describe a trend. Did she do this repeatedly, or was it a one time thing?
 * I am not sure how much trend was it. It perhaps did not last long enough to establish a pattern. Not sure what to do. Removed the mention of a single appearance in Kolkata.


 * daily soap - Missing a word
 * Made soap opera.


 * Silk avatar - An adaptation of a film named Silk? If so, link!
 * Paraphrased the quote, this is not needed anymore.


 * Rathnam's quote can probably be paraphrased.
 * Paraphrase.


 * the image of India's first underground railway. - Is "first underground railway" necessary? No. This can be rewritten "the railway's image" and cut some 15 characters. Be careful with this extra verbosity; I've fixed a bit already.
 * Changed as suggested.


 * What are satellite rights?
 * Explained in the sentence. This means exclusive right to broadcast.


 * 'Making of the Film', 'The Success Party' and 'Promotional Songs'. - Don't tell us the titles, tell us what they are. Photographs, a behind the scenes film, and songs?
 * Explained in the article.


 * the story and screenplay, and the film itself. - What's the difference? Try limiting this whole phrase, to avoid "mostly for ... 5 things".
 * Removed that whole part.


 * As of May 2012, the film is set to be remade in Tamil and Telugu. - Which film, Kahaani or Kahaani 2?
 * Kahaani. Made clear in the article.


 * One or two remakes?
 * Two; made clear.


 * Ghosh commented that, "I am overwhelmed with the kind of interest Kolkata has generated among the people in Mumbai and elsewhere. - There is no reason to not paraphrase this quote.
 * Actually removed it altogether. Seems unnecessary


 * No reason to have the tidbit about Balan and Kolkata; WP:CRUFT.
 * Removed.


 * Half of the Monalisa Guest House paragraph is marketing from its management and may read advertorial. Trim, with fire.
 * Trimmed. Perhaps with fire.


 * Perhaps change "was ... as of 2012" to "is being ... as of 2012"
 * Not done yet. Not sure.


 * Those stars in the reference section should not be there. We have critical review templates that you can use instead.
 * Which templates are you suggesting?

--Dwaipayan (talk) 00:14, 21 March 2013 (UTC) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * CN tags in critical reception
 * Done.


 * Critical reception remains a QUOTEFARM. Case in point: "Post The Dirty Picture, the admiration for the National Award winning actress Vidya has scaled woozy altitudes and let me affirm, the supremely talented actress delivers a performance that's at par with her former accomplishments." - The first half of that sentence gives very little about Vidya's reception in this film.
 * Reduced some more quotes. Completely removed this particular one.


 * "Once again, a 'pregnant' Vidya, ironically displays more 'male ornaments'... than most heroes." - Is the ... in the original? Ellipses generally have a nbsp before them
 * The ellipses were not there in the original. Added nbsp.


 * Positive or mixed reviews? I see some real nastiness
 * Positive reviews. This source proves that.Plea$ant 1623  ✉  11:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Generally positive, maybe. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:48, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.Plea$ant 1623  ✉  11:57, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * box office revenues raised from 47% on Friday (day of release) to 77% on Saturday and to around 97% on Sunday. - How can revenues be percentages? Also, I think it's weird to have days but not dates.
 * It is "occupancy", not revenues. Gave dates.


 * create a niche - A niche what?
 * nice as a director. Sounds ok?


 * an actor of Bengali cinema - not very clear for someone who does not know much about India cinema
 * Wikilinked Bengali cinema; and explained it there in the article.


 * The Bong Connection -year?
 * Year added.


 * He thought there were competent actors in Hindi film industry suitable for the role - More competent?
 * Changed the sentence construction to "He thought there were suitable actors in Hindi film industry for the role"
 * My issue is that he seems to be saying he wasn't as qualified as the other actors, which is why the "more" is important. If it's just there were competent actors, it would include him (because obviously someone chose him) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I did not find in the source if he said "more" competent. But, he told there are other actor suitable for the role.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * he wanted only him as Bob Biswas - Huh?
 * Removed only.


 * Dos and don'ts - We should not use a contraction. Find another term
 * Changed the sentence to "... along with making lists of rules and superstitions followed by pregnant women"


 * stand up acting - Acting or comedy?
 * Not sure. Will try to search more.


 * Quotes can be shortened in this section
 * Shetened quotes.


 * relatively cheap brand of cigarette - Which
 * Named the brand.


 * Some actors mingled with the crowd—their job was to appreciate the camera angles and accordingly apply sindoor (vermilion) on Balan's face so that accidental exposure of her eyes to sindoor could be avoided. - Not understanding this
 * Ok, I guess this would need an explanatory note to make it understandable. Will try.


 * the place - The room or guest house?
 * The room. Made that "it".--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

— Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Are any of these quotes (themes section) fleshed out more in the sources?
 * Yes, quotes are more fleshed out in the source; but here we are using only parts,


 * the demon - Which demon?
 * Mahishasura. Added.


 * "Durga Puja, with its paraphernalia of idols, immersion processions, pandals, even an entire crowd of women draped in white saris with red borders, is central to the film’s plot and visual aesthetic." - According to whom? Also, what evidence have they provided for the slaying of the demon thing?
 * Provided the author name (According to Uddalak Mukherjee of the Telegraph).
 * Now, you have asked a really difficult question. What evidence? I am quoting a sentence from that source article, "Kahaani’s denouement utilizes the hackneyed symbolism of the goddess returning to Calcutta each year to slay its demons, thereby leaving the city, momentarily, free of the grime of sin." Is it enough?
 * That's for FAC... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * You're varying between past and present tense here.
 * Will work on consistency soon.


 * a boy - How old is Rana? "Boy" suggests still a teenager or preteen.
 * Replaced with man.


 * but could be performed on screen only because of the outstanding performance of the two actors involved. - Feels a little POV. Is "outstanding" in the source?
 * Removed the sentence.


 * Rediff.com - What makes this source reliable? What makes its review worth quoting?
 * Rediff.com is a reliable web site in Indian news etc, and has been used in many articles as reference. It is almost like a almost newspaperf so far as reliability is concerned.
 * The review is not necessarily worth quoting, but it was very difficult to paraphrase without running the risk of too close paraphrasing. These lines mentions certain things/entities, and so used within quotes.
 * If we have an article on it, it should be linked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "yellow taxis, leisurely trams, congested traffic, claustrophobic metros, dilapidated brick houses, tapering alleys, rajnigandhas, lal paad saris, piping hot luchis". - Italics in the original?
 * No, not in the italics in original. We italicsed the non-English words. Should we de-italicise?
 * Per Manual of Style, it shouldn't be italicised if not italicised in the original. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Italics removed.


 * Deft portrayal of different moods of the city is noted in the review. - Such as?
 * Removed it.


 * glossed up - Huh?
 * The source actually used that verb. Now, replaced with "polished up"


 * director Srijit Mukherji argues that the portrayal the city was akin to a Lonely Planet exotica. - Not of this film, right?
 * I did not get your point. Anyway, changed the construction to "and director Srijit Mukherji argues that the portrayal the city in Kahaani was akin to a Lonely Planet exotica on the city"
 * Mukherji didn't direct this film, right? Concerned there may be confusion. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No, he did not direct this film. I changed the sentence now to "noted Bengli director Srijit Mukherji...". Does that sound ok?--Dwaipayan (talk) 13:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * More ellipses... don't forget the spaces.
 * Hmmm. Done.


 * He acknowledges the inspiration of framing of the visuals - Not very clear
 * Rephrased to, "He acknowledges influence of Mahanagar (1963), another film directed..."


 * visually striking - According to whom?
 * According to the director Ghosh, Rephrased to, "Ghosh also admits inspiration from what he calls "visually striking" films of 1970s and 1980s..."


 * Taking Lives and The Usual Suspects are both American films; might be worth noting.
 * Mentioned. Used American for one, and Hollywood for the other.


 * You may need a good copyedit from someone who is looking for spelling mistakes; there seem to be several.
 * Will request copyedit after this peer review is done, and it reaches a relatively stable form.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

— Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I am reading random sections, not all in a sequence. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 18:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Redtigerxyz's comments
 * Portrayal of Kolkata
 * ... rajnigandhas, lal paad saris, piping hot luchis... shakti during the famed Durga Puja: the non-English jargon in the sentence will be difficult to understand to a non-Indian
 * True. Thinking about an way to explain this. may be an explanatory note.


 * Cut the quotes in para 1
 * Tried, more can be done perhaps.


 * Who is Gautaman Bhaskaran? Note his significance. "Gautaman Bhaskaran of the Gulf Times"
 * In Critical reception section, his review in Gulf Times was mentioned. D you think we need to repeat that here?--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * tie Calcutta to Kolkata, else confusing to non-Indian
 * Calcutta-Kolkta tied.--Dwaipayan (talk) 13:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz Talk 14:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Themes and "Visuals and motifs" should be merged in something like "Themes and influences" as they are related.
 * Done.


 * "I remember an interview ... " and "I remember the scene ..."  can be removed. -> Ghosh is inspired ...
 * Done. Please check.
 * "Shashi Kapoor walks in, sees Nirupa Roy and takes his cap off... " probably can be removed.
 * Removed.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

-- Redtigerxyz Talk 04:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Check for dead links: 106
 * Will do.


 * Do we have updated info for " as of ___ 2012" facts. Concerned more about facts from March/April
 * We do not; difficult to find.


 * Remove quote "Though Kahaani was ready befo..
 * Removed.--Dwaipayan (talk) 00:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz Talk 18:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Most quotes in "Themes and influences" para 1 can be removed.
 * more quotes in this section can go probably. Redtigerxyz  Talk 17:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "After Ishqiya (2010), No One Killed Jessica (2011) and The Dirty Picture (2011), Kahaani was Balan's fourth woman-centric film..." would fit better in Themes
 * Release: where was the star-studded premier. Most films have it.
 * Could not find out where was the star-studded premier. May be will have to search more.


 * Cast should have a short explanation about every charcter.
 * Actually, the small description used to be there (see, for example, this diff). Those were removed during this PR when Crisco suggested to do so (please see above, that point is the 6th or 7th point on Crisco's comments dated 17 March 2013).--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * 1 thing missing is Rana's involvement in Vidya. How he falls for her
 * The hint of romance has been discussed in themes.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Vidya Bagchi is portrayed to have arrived from London initially. Right?
 * Can anything be done about the tiny sections at the end. Suggesting merge:
 * Reception: Reviews, awards, box office
 * Impact: including remake.
 * Regarding section merging, do you suggest to have sub-sections (level 3 headings), or coalescing the text without subsections?--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The latter. Redtigerxyz  Talk 17:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz Talk 04:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Merging now done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


 * On his casting of Balan, Ghosh said..., On the character of Rana, Parambrata Chatterjee said, He said, "Today, I feel glad when people address me: the quotes can go. A promotional quotes
 * Removed many quotes, rephrased Paramabrata's quote.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz Talk 17:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Filming: focusses more on the climax. There are many other locations in the film. Where particular areas of Kolkata used?