Wikipedia:Peer review/Laie Hawaii Temple/archive1

Laie Hawaii Temple

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for July 2008.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for July 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.

I would like to know if the article requires additional work before nominating it as a GAC. If not, I'm looking for constructive criticism of any kind. The biggest problem has been finding actual sources, and as it turns out, most of them can probably only be found in BYU libraries and I don't have access. I've asked for help in at least three instances from the LDS project and their members but I haven't had much of a response. Thanks, Viriditas (talk) 11:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Very briefly, here are some suggestions for improvement. If you want more comments, please ask here. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks pretty good to me overall, although I do worry it is a bit short - comprehensiveness is a criterion to worry about (although length in and of itself is not). I note for example, that the 2004 New York Times story has some information that is not mentioned in the article. The visitor center, expansion of the avenue to the ocean, etc.
 * Units should be given in both English and metric for all figures - for example "11 acres of land" convert may be helpful here.
 * Make sure to provide context for the reader - LDS is used but never technically explained (abbreivation following first use), perhaps a map of Oahu showing the location of Honolulu and Laie would help too. See WP:PCR
 * I would put the wood ship story before the WWII story in the myths section (chronological order). Also, I think of lots of trees in Hawaii, so why would wood be scarce there? Explain perhaps.
 * ✅ Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 13:05, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I reread it and think it would help to explain the difference between a LDS temple (which there are few of) and a LDS "church" (which there are many of). I also would make sure the references all give as much info as consistently as possible - place of publication for books for example. Otherwise nothing comes to mind, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:43, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: That information appears in the lead section for Temple (Latter Day Saints), and I don't see any references.  How do you suggest adding it to this article?  I'll get to work on formatting the publication location right now.  It just occurred to me that future expansion could be based on incorporating the "see also" section into the body of the article. Viriditas (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Place of publication for books added. Viriditas (talk) 03:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Difference between Temple and Church in progress... Viriditas (talk) 10:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know there is a difference but am not sure of it myself - just know that many casual readers will have seen their local LDS church and might confuse this with that. I would put the information itself into the background - it does not have to be a lot, but even a few sentences would help. For example, they have a visitor center because non-Mormons can not enter the actual; temple, right? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That information is available to anyone who clicks on the very first wikilink in the lead section:
 * "A temple is a building dedicated to be a house of God and is reserved for special forms of worship. A temple differs from a church meetinghouse, which is used for weekly worship services."
 * The only reason I haven't copied it over to this article in toto, is due to its lack of inline references. With that said, your suggestion is entirely reasonable and I will continue looking for supporting material.  As for the visitors' center, from what I can tell, these centers are found in many non-temple areas around the U.S., such as important LDS-related historical sites visited by tourists; The temple is considered an important landmark in the town of Laie.  I don't think it has anything to do with non-Mormons being able to enter the temple; that's just a coincidence. Viriditas (talk) 12:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Difference between temple and church added per Ruhrfisch's excellent suggestion. Viriditas (talk) 08:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Redtigerxyz's Comments:
 * Info about interior architecture of the temple like altar??? sculptures??? prayer Halls?? murals?? sealing halls?? Pictures of the interior seen here
 * Closing of the temple for 2 yrs from 1976 is not mentioned. Found this info Redtigerxyz (talk) 05:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of that information is in the architecture section. I don't think it is appropriate to cite a personal website on a geocities server, however I will see what I can expand with reliable sources. I'm pretty much hovering at the limit right now. Viriditas (talk) 05:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The closing of the temple is mentioned in the history section, but only notes it in passing and doesn't mention the initial closing date of 1976: "After extensive remodeling, church president Spencer W. Kimball rededicated the temple on June 13, 1978." I'll try to fix that. Viriditas (talk) 05:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Date added. Viriditas (talk) 10:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind, there is a very limited set of RS on the internet, but there is a great deal of personal, but unauthorized websites. I've avoided using all of them except one (Rick Satterfield), which has apparently earned the respect of the LDS Church. Viriditas (talk) 06:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, i agree the links i provided may not be RS, be still for an article to be complete other sources except the internet like newspaper articles, books can be refered. Rick Satterfield one does mention murals. All the best imporving the article.Redtigerxyz (talk) 06:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Incompleteness is preferred over unreliable information. To date, all of the information in the article can be verified.  Once you start dipping into the unauthorized, personal websites, it's downhill.  Also, much of this information is considered sacred to the LDS Church, so they make an effort to keep it low-key.  Remember, non-Mormons cannot even go inside the Temple.  In that respect, the article could be considered complete, however I will continue to strive to add reliable sources. Viriditas (talk) 06:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, I just took another look at the Geocities website you offered, and a lot of the information is wrong. This is why we need to be very careful about which sources we use.  I'm starting to have doubts bout Rick Satterfield's site now, and I'm considering pulling it out of the article along with its information, so that we only have verifiable, reliable sources. Viriditas (talk) 06:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * After reviewing Satterfield's information, I can't find anything wrong with it, so I'll leave it be for now, but I'll probably replace it as I go along. Viriditas (talk) 06:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Another Geocities website error found and corrected: Viriditas (talk) 09:08, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Addition of murals per Redtigerxyz's suggestion in progress. Viriditas (talk) 09:14, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Rewrite of lead to reflect recent changes in progress. Viriditas (talk) 08:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)