Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Interstate Highways in Ohio/archive1

List of Interstate Highways in Ohio
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I am interested in bringing this to featured list status. I think I have everything in place, and I would like somebody to look over it to make sure that it meets the criteria for a featured list before I actually nominate it. I am especially interested in:
 * 1) Whether the prose is repetitive (and some suggestions on changes if it is! ;).
 * 2) If I am missing any proposed/redesignated interstates. (I have many old Ohio maps, and I added all I found.)
 * 3) Whether I really need all those wikilinks in the table.
 * 4) Anything else you have to say!

Thanks, Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:25, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The first thing that jumps out at me is the use of "interstate highway" vs. "Interstate Highway". An "interstate highway" is just any highway that enters two or more states, whereas an "Interstate Highway" is a highway that's part of the Interstate Highway System. Since this is a list about the latter, the latter should be used. –  T M F 17:21, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Some basic things that jump out at me at first glance:  Imzadi 1979  →   23:58, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Review by Imzadi1979
 * 1) Get rid of the maps. They're too small to be useful.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) There's infobox state highway system that combined with the links used at the bottom of infobox road makes that navbox/sidebar template unneeded. On the same note, all your links in the "See also" section duplicate that template and should be removed per MOS:LAYOUT.
 * I am not certain that infobox should be used, since this is not a state highway system, but rather a portion of the interstate highway system. Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Look at List of Interstate Highways in Michigan to see how I did the infobox there. It lists the length, formation date for just the Interstates in Michigan as well as all of the abbreviation conventions for the different highway types. It even includes examples of the shields for the Interstates. Compare that to Michigan Highway System which has a map as well. The style of navbox you have in the list has been deprecated by updates to the infobox made in the last year to so.  Imzadi 1979  →   03:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Your lengths aren't all stated to the same level of precision. Since the ODOT SLDs are given to 2 decimal places, your tables should as well.
 * They are spelled out, but apparently convert eats trailing zeros. Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've never known it to do that.
 * I tried using the rounding and |sigfig=# parameters, but it still didn't work. Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * - Now it has fixed itself when I used table display. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Spell out "References".
 * It already is spelled out, right at the bottom  . Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * In your table headers, smartass. The abbreviated form there does not look professional.  Imzadi 1979  →   03:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) References that link to PDFs should have the format parameter in the citation specified.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) The Google Maps citations should all be formatted using google maps.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Fn 44 (1962 Rand McNally atlas) should have section numbers and a page number specified.
 * 2) Fn 46 could be linked better. http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/TransSysDev/Innovation/prod_services/Documents/StateMaps/otm1969a.sid is the direct link to the map from the ODOT archive. Additionally, the citation is wrong, as it wasn't ODOT at the time, nor is that the correct title for the map. The citation should look something like:
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌. You changed fn 45 (which wasn't the Cleveland inset), but left fn 46 unchanged. That graphic on that SPS/roadgeek website is the Cleveland inset. Audit your older map references, to make sure that the agency's name is period appropriate. Most state departments of transportation were renamed as departments of transportation in the mid to late 1970s. Before that time period, most (all?) of them were "highway departments" with various different name schemes. In Michigan, it went from the Michigan State Highways Department (MSHD) to the Michigan Department of State Highways (MDSH) to the Michigan Department of State Highways and Transportation (MDSHT) finally to the Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) from the mid-1960s to c. 1978. http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/TransSysDev/Innovation/prod_services/Pages/TransportMap.aspx has the full list of all old state maps, all in MrSID format. You'll need to use a plug-in or a program that can read MrSID format, but they're all there.  Imzadi 1979  →   18:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Is there any reason why DD Month YYY format is being used instead of the usual Month DD, YYYY format used in the US?
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌ Some of the references have not be converted. Audit them.  Imzadi 1979  →   18:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Convert has a format for tables where it separates the mileage from the metric value into separate columns. I think that would streamline the display of the lengths in the tables.
 * - Wow, thanks! I didn't know that existed! Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Your descriptions, if kept, are all written backwards. USRD standards are to start at the south or west and proceed northerly or easterly to follow the direction of the mileposts. Personally, I'd drop the paragraphs completely in favor of a more streamlined approach.
 * 2) The "Location" and "Major cities" are kinda redundant. I'd drop both in favor of columns for the termini.
 * Do you mean the termini in Ohio or the termini in other states, since many of the highways pass out of Ohio into other states? Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The Ohio termini. Look at the Michigan list for an example.
 * 1) "This is a list of the interstate highways in Ohio..." that style of lead sentence for a list has been deprecated. You'll need to change that before FLC.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "state of Ohio" capitalize "state" as you're referring indirectly to the government of the state, which is the State of Ohio.
 * 2) "There are a total of twenty-one interstates in Ohio..." numbers greater than ten should be rendered in numerals, not words.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "with route miles adding up to a total of 1,726.4 miles (2,778.37 km)" Why bother giving the cumulative total of all of the Interstates when the overlaps make that number totally inaccurate? Just express the actual total with a brief explanation that some sections carry two numbers.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Link to concurrency (road) the first time you discuss overlaps/concurrencies/etc.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "tarmac"? Do you mean pavement? To me, tarmac is the name for the approaches to and from a runway at the airport. Either way, it's a specific type of paving material and not commonly used as a generic term except in British or Canadian English.
 * - Removed. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌ Double check, I still find three usages of the word.  Imzadi 1979  →   18:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower " drop the "then-" and unlink "President". The link is low-value (it's assumed that a president mentioned in a US article is the US President unless specified otherwise) and it's a link next to a link, which is a no-no in terms of the MOS.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "Of that, up to 1,500 miles (2,400 km) was to be built in Ohio". "miles" is plural, so you don't have subject–verb agreement.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "originally-planned" Adverbs that end in "-ly" are not hyphenated into their adjective.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) You should use jct to generate the shield/link groupings in the table. That will fix the alt text issues for that part of the tables.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) You should provide alt text for the other remaining images. While it's not required, it is recommended.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, let me partially retract this comment. It seems that the tag can't use alt text.  Imzadi 1979  →   18:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) The photos used should be geotagged. Again, not a requirement, but something recommended. File:Interstate 80 over the Cuyahoga River.jpg is geotagged.
 * 2) The map, File:Ohio Interstates.svg, should have a creation date and a GIS source added to the file description page.
 * 3) http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table3.htm and http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/nhs/maps/oh/ came up with connection time-out errors using the external link tool above.
 * The government site seems to have been flakey earlier, but it seems to be fine now. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * - They are working fine now. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) You should add the portal box with links to the U.S. Roads and Ohio portals. will generate the box, and should be added to the "See also" section (if it still exists with non-duplicative links) or the top of the "References" section.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Another suggestion is to add to the "External links" section to produce a link a link to the category on Commons.  will do the same, but as a single line for inclusion in a bulleted list.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I'd look at including links to the reputable roadgeek websites in the External links section. Just because you can't use them as references doesn't mean you can't direct readers there.
 * 1) I'd look at including links to the reputable roadgeek websites in the External links section. Just because you can't use them as references doesn't mean you can't direct readers there.


 * Comments by Fredddie
 * 1) I agree with Imzadi1979 about the maps. They're more distracting than anything.
 * - Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm not so sure the table format is the best way to present the information. Tables should be for quick glances, not for reading paragraphs of text.
 * 2) The SR 18 shield looks way out of place in the infobox.
 * - Removed. Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll have more comments later. –Fredddie™ 22:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally, I agree with Fredddie on his second point. In the List of Interstate Highways in Michigan, I've dropped the commentary in favor of making everything a cell in the table.  Imzadi 1979  →   23:58, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Before I go to all the work of rewriting the table, does this format look good? Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How about this?


 * It looks worse. The junction list should not be used here. Leave that for the article itself. I'd split the termini into two columns: south/west terminus and north/east terminus. I would drop the major cities completely, as the definition of what's "major" is inherently subjective, and it's not needed.  Imzadi 1979  →   18:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh! You mean something like this? And then all the descriptions and junction lists would be used in the individual articles on the interstates? Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I was hoping for something like this – no table at all. –Fredddie™ 13:20, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This table is better. The format that Fredddie likes is our Rockland County Scenario, and I don't think is appropriate since the articles aren't being merged together to form this list. Some suggestions for the sample I-70 line though are:
 * Get the actual Ohio locations for the termini. "West of Dayton" isn't very specific but either Jackson Township or Jefferson Township in Preble County is. (You'll need to consult a copy of an atlas that shows the township or other municipal names to determine which township it is.) Wheeling is not in Ohio, so it's not in Belmont County. Bridgeport should be the municipality on the border where I-70 crosses into WV. uses a copy of a state altas by Delorme that's great for determining township names, which he's done for the many articles on shorter state highways he's revised and expanded.
 * Notes like "Southernmost major east-west corridor" are sentence fragments, and like captions, they should not have terminal punctuation.
 * Drop the  from the jct usages. It's not needed when using , and it left justifies the miles but right justifies the kilometers. Removing it right justifies both so that the decimal points line up, and yet the table still sorts correctly.
 * I hope this helps.  Imzadi 1979  →   16:43, 16 February 2011 (UTC)