Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Seattle bridges/archive1

List of Seattle bridges
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get it to FL. I am not very familiar with the best formatting for lists and based it on some of the better bridge lists. I know there are a couple gaps (the length of the West Seattle Bridge is blanked and a couple other lengths do not have RS) and am attempting to address those. Is the format alright? Wikilinks? Headings? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cptnono (talk) 08:04, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's one thing: "Comments" should be changed to "Notes". Crowz  RSA  02:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sweet.Cptnono (talk) 05:04, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: An interesting list with nice images. Here are some suggestions:


 * I would move the "Notes" column to the far right or, as explained below, move the notes to a Notes section below the table.


 * I'd make the "Length" and "Coordinates" columns sortable.
 * I actually tried and could not get it to work. The software was sorting it by the first number and not the whole number. ANy idea how I can fix that?Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. I tried the Coordinates sort but did not see any problem with it. It sorts on the North half only, but that's OK. For the length sort, try the nts template for any numbers big enough to include a comma separator. I learned how to do this by using the tables in List of tributaries of Larrys Creek, a featured list, as my model. Finetooth (talk) 22:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Would it be useful to include a "Width" or "Span" column as well as a "Length" column?
 * "Width" is something I did not see in any other articles. I assume that is because the sourcing is not available. I considered other columns (like height above the waterway or total of any towers) but again did not see it anywhere else and don;t think the sourcing is available. What do you mean by "span"?Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I was using "span" as a synonym for "width", but since you are using "span" for something else, "width" would be better. I found a "span" column in List of longest bridges in the world, but it has a lot of blank boxes, and it's not a featured list. The only featured bridge list that I found was List of bridges to the Island of Montreal, and it doesn't include a "width" column. What you use depends on what information is available and how useful you think it would be to readers. Finetooth (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Would it be useful to include a column listing what kind of traffic the bridge carries; i.e., highway, street, rail, light-rail, pedestrian, bicycle? In the case of streets and highways, would it be useful to include their names and numbers?
 * Totally. I will work on that.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * To make room for new columns, it would be possible to put the notes in a "Notes" section below the table rather than in the table itself. You might be interested in a "Notes and References" system like the one used in Voyage of the Karluk. The notes system you are using in the existing article doesn't make a truly clear visual distinction between a note and a citation. One has brackets, and the other does not, but at first glance they look quite similar. If you switch from a column of notes to a "Notes" section, you'll have a lot more notes, and it would be nice to instantly see which link led to a note and which to a reference entry.

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider commenting on any other article at WP:PR. I don't usually watch the PR archives or make follow-up comments. If my suggestions are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 18:09, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I would think about using degrees, minutes, seconds instead of decimal coordinates because I think readers are more familiar with the former. However, coordinates appear in both forms in Wikipedia articles, so it may be a matter of editor's preference.
 * Is the list complete? The title indicates that this is a list of all kinds of bridges in Seattle. Are there any pedestrian-only bridges in the city? Bicycle-only? In big cities, there are often bridges for foot- and bicycle traffic that span highways that are otherwise difficult to cross except in a motor vehicle. Sometimes similar bridges span railways.
 * It is a list of "notable" bridges that have Wikipedia articles. I tried to allude to this in the lead. Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I did miss Salmon Bay Bridge which I will fix. I was thinking about adding South Park Bridge (Seattle) even though it is just outside of the city limits.Cptnono (talk) 21:39, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The West Seattle Bridge is mentioned in the lead but doesn't appear in the table.
 * It is but it is under its "official" name. Should I add common names to the first column (like "Jeanette Williams Memorial Bridge/West Seattle Bridge)? Currently, common names are in the "Notes" column.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Should bridges that have been demolished or replaced be included in the table? The article title does not suggest that this is a list of contemporary bridges only.
 * See my comment above about notability.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "The structure was crippled after being struck by a freighter." - When did this happen?
 * Sweet. Let me dig it up.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Images like File:Alaskanviaduct.jpg that are on the English Wikipedia but not on the Commons should be moved to the Commons to make them more widely available. I didn't check all of the images, and this one was the only one I noticed on a spot check. The others I checked were already on the Commons.
 * Cool.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I used to regard linking something like Lake Washington or Bascule more than once in a table column was overlinking until another editor pointed out to me that in a sortable column it was not always convenient for readers to hunt for the box with the linked term. Since then I have been linking terms multiple times in sortable columns. So, I would probably link Viaduct and Duwamish River and so on in every box in which they appear in the table.
 * I questioned that myself. I will make the change.Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)
 * Should be good. Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * For sure. Thank you!Cptnono (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Based on the comments above, I have restructured the table. I am also in the process of adding more bridges that appear to be notable eve though they do not have articles yet.Cptnono (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Follow-up

For your explanatory footnotes, I have a suggestion to make. If you use, then the superscript will use a lowercase letter instead of a number. Then you can use to generate the list. I've used this system on articles like U.S. Route 131, and I find that it helps to separate the explanatory and citation footnotes both visually in the text of the article as well as into the two lists. You can even insert a reference into an explanatory footnote using the workaround. If you don't like latin alphabet letters, there are default groups, "lower-greek" for lowercase greek alphabet letters or "lower-roman" for lowercase roman numerals (i ii, iii, iv, v, vi, vii...). Otherwise, the system you're using now is confusing. (Is that superscript a note or a reference?)  Imzadi 1979  →   12:20, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment by Imzadi1979
 * That is kind of cool. I get what you are saying since the only way to differentiate right now is to notice the slight variation of brackets v no brackets. Thanks!Cptnono (talk)