Wikipedia:Peer review/Manilal Dwivedi/archive1

Manilal Dwivedi


I want to submit this biographical article for FA, which has been promoted to GA by me. Please help me to make it suitable for FA nomination. Thanks, Gazal world (talk) 10:14, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley
You asked for my comments and here they are:
 * Early life
 * The second paragraph – 117 words in six sentences – has just one citation. Is every statement in the paragraph covered in the cited Thakar book?
 * Yes, the entire paragraph is supported by the single source (Thaker's book). --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "completed a Bachelor of Arts in history and politics" – is a word missing? Either "completed a Bachelor of Arts degree in history and politics" or, better, I think, "graduated as a Bachelor of Arts in history and politics"
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "James Tylor" – or James Taylor? Just checking.
 * Done Corrected. ---Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Literary works
 * "they were held to capture the spirit of ghazal." – who held them to do so?
 * Done Mentioned the name of the critic who claimed. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Religious and philosophical writings
 * "It addressed the science of mesmerism and presents a study of yoga" – sudden switch from past to present tense.
 * Done switched to present tense. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "many were particularly critical of the logical lapses and inconsistencies in Manilal's arguments." – this seems to side with the critics rather than being neutral. I think what you want is something like "many were particularly critical of what they regarded as logical lapses and inconsistencies in Manilal's arguments".
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "Baroda State Archeology Department" – surprising use of the American spelling: one might expect the English spelling, "archaeology".
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "which he could not attend due to financial constraints" – a bit mealy-mouthed, perhaps. In plain words, he could not afford to go.
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Social reforms and educational writings
 * "who set about to press for reforms" – a touch wordy? Would something like "who campaigned for" or "who pressed for" do?
 * Done ---Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Translation
 * "Uttararamacarita was considered an excellent translation by the critic Mansukhlal Jhaveri." – citation wanted, I think.
 * Citation is there at the end of the very next sentence. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "by the critic Mansukhlal Jhaveri. He also translated" – the He is Manilal, and it would be better to use his name here rather than the pronoun, which can be read as referring to the critic immediately preceding it.
 * Done ---Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Controversies
 * "eight instalments in weekly periodical Gujarati" – missing a "the" before "weekly"? The false title makes it read very strangely.
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Reception
 * The second paragraph is another long one with only one citation. That's fine if the one citation justifies every statement in the paragraph: but be sure it does before going to FAC.
 * Yes. The entire paragraph is supported by that single source. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * References
 * These look pretty good to my inexpert eye, but I dislike your practice of putting in an external link to Google Books for books such as Thakar's for which not even a snippet view is available. If I click on a link to a source I expect to be able to read what it says unless it is shown as a subscription site (see next bullet point). I know others disagree with me on this point, but I mention it nonetheless.
 * Snippet view is available for Theker's book. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * It is usual, and I think helpful, to use the template for JSTOR sources and anything else for which a subscription is needed for access.
 * I tried to set 'jstor-access' template, but failed. I will do it with the help of someone else. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Those are my detailed comments. As to the article as a whole, I found it clear, in good, readable prose with a range of sources. I know absolutely nothing of the subject, but the article seemed on the short side to me for a Featured Article. We don't want padding, but are we sure the present text covers all that needs to be covered? Fine if so. I wish you luck at FAC. –  Tim riley  talk   07:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks you for your detailed comments. I have addressed all the issues. --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello. once again thank you for your suggestions. I have added some important details into article, and added three new paragraph in 'Religious and philosophical writings' section (first three paragraph). --Gazal world (talk) 17:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Gog the Mild
I have copy edited a little. Let me know if I have messed anything up.


 * "to a Sathodara Nagar family". Suggestion only → 'to a Sathodara Nagar (high caste) family'.
 * There are several branches of Nagar Brahmin in Gujarat. They all claim that their cast is 'high cast'. So I am keeping this as it is. No need to mention 'high cast'. --Gazal world (talk) 06:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "at the Oriental Congress". When was this held? Where was it held? Did Manilal attend in person?
 * Done. Added a detailed paragraph about his association with the Oriental Congress. --Gazal world (talk) 14:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "and the Bhagavad Gita with commentary". This is a little unclear. Do you mean 'and he translated the Bhagavad Gita into Gujarati with a commentary'?
 * Done clarified. Yes. He translated Bhagavad Gita into Gujarati with a commentary. Should we paraphrase it ? How ? --Gazal world (talk) 06:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * "in the Samaldas College here (Bhavnagar)" If you have added Bhavnagar, it should be in square brackets.
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 06:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I am not familiar with literature articles at FA, nor very familiar with biographies; for what it is worth, this looks FACable to me. I would however agree with Tim that it seems a little thin. Don't add padding, but if there is any missing germane information, feel free to add it. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:41, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

PS Parel and Raval should include the page ranges of the chapters cited. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:47, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 06:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello Thanks for your comments. I have addressed all the issues suggested by you except one (the Bhagavad Gita). As you and Tim found the article a little thin, I have added three paragraphs in 'Religious and philosophical writings' section. --Gazal world (talk) 14:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments by PM
G'day Gazal world! As promised, I've had a read and have a few comments, which I make with the understanding that whilst I know my way around a FA bio, I haven't much experience reviewing bio articles on cultural figures like this fellow, so my expectations may not be in line with consensus:
 * you probably don't need to duplicate his date of death in the lead, just say "died at the age of 40"
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * suggest BA→Bachelor of Arts in the infobox and link
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * is there a useful link to an article describing the Indian education system of the time? For example, what are the second, third and fourth standards?
 * Done There is an article 'Education in India'. I am going to add relevant links. I have added links for 'primary' and 'secondary' examination. It will work, I think. --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * was he admitted to the MA degree or was this informal outside the education system?
 * He did't received the MA degree, and didn't attend the college/university. He studied all the books of MA degree at home. --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * And this ? --Gazal world (talk) 11:38, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I’m not sure the MA should be mentioned if he wasn’t admitted into the degree. Perhaps just say that after his BA he continued his studies at home. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The Early life section is really his whole life, perhaps the Personal life section could be combined with this one and titled Biography. This could be followed by the Works section, Controversies and Reception, although the latter two could arguably be flipped
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * link subjects at first mention in the body as well as in the lead, such as Pandit Yuga, Gujarati language, Advaita Vedanta (move to first mention),
 * Are you saying that I should link the subjects two time ? first in the lead and second in article body? --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's right. Per MOS:DUPLINK. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:27, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 12:51, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Dhirubhai Thaker is duplicate linked, just use his family name after introducing him
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't think Advaita Vedanta, karma yoga and Swa-Sudharak should be italicised, as they are not literary works
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * drop the comma from "December, 1886"
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * which he edited from 1885 until his death in 1898, as if you have combined the two "Life" sections into one, you will have already said when he died
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * just use Mansukhlal Jhaveri's family name after introducing him, same with Ramanbhai Neelkanth and anyone else whose name appears more than once in the body (see MOS:SURNAME)
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * move the G government
 * Done --Gazal world (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Gujarati theatre, yoga, Brahman, Kevalādvaita and mesmerism are all duplicate linked
 * Done removed duplicate links. --Gazal world (talk) 11:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I haven't looked at the image licensing or sources. Nice job thus far! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello Thanks for your detailed comments. I have addressed all the issues suggested by you. Thanks you very much. --Gazal world (talk) 15:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries, a pleasure. Good luck with it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)