Wikipedia:Peer review/Manuel Belgrano/archive1

Manuel Belgrano
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because most of the hard work (checking books and turning their information into a complete article, adressing all major topics) is done. Even more, except the first two sections, it's not a translation of the Spanish article, but an article written almost from scratch. I'm aware that the references are a little repetitive and that I should cite more books, but that's mostly technical: the biography is more or less the same by all modern authors that deal with it, which means that new references would hardly invole important rewritings of the article.

However, I'm not a native english speaker, and I'm too familiar with this topic. I need a review of 2 things: first, languaje (if there are things wich are not written correctly, or may be improved), and second, whenever there are details that may seem confusing to people with no knowledge on the topic and that may require higher explanations (or, on the contrary, if somewhere I overexplain something that is already clear for the casual reader).

Thanks, MBelgrano (talk) 04:27, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Note to nominator: Due to a shortage of reviewers, peer reviews are being delayed for up to two weeks. It will help to speed things up if you can find time to review one article from the backlog list, which appears on the WP:PR page. Thanks. Brianboulton (talk) 23:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: This is a good start on a complicated article about an interesting and important historical figure. I've tried to at least in some way respond to your two questions above, but this is by no means a line-by-line critique.


 * Copyedit: A general copyedit by an experienced editor who is a native speaker of English would be a good idea. Your English is very good, but quite a few subtle slips occur here and there. For example, in the final paragraph of the "Europe studies" section, a sentence says, "His main topics of interest in the works of such authors were those referred to the public good and popular prosperity." Rather than "referred to", I think the phrase that you are searching for is "related to". The next sentence says, "As many other South American students, he became interested in physiocracy... ". I would change "as" to "like". Further along, a sentence says, "Belgrano developed the idea that the principles of physiocracy and those stated by Adam Smith could be complemented... ". I think you mean "combined" rather than "complemented". Later, I see "particular cases over theoric generalizations". " 'Theoric' should be 'theoretical'." Later in this paragraph a sentence says, "During his time in Europe he became president of the forensic practice and political economy Academy of Salamanca... ". Something seems to be missing from this sentence since it's not possible to be become president of a "forensic practice" or a "political economy". These second-language problems are all in the same paragraph, but I see a similar pattern throughout. Copyediting this article will be a fairly big job. You might find someone willing to help via WP:PRV.


 * Sources: While some of the article seems adequately sourced, many claims lack sources. A good rule of thumb is to include a source for every claim that has been questioned or is apt to be questioned, every direct quote, every set of statistics, and every paragraph. For example, in the "Ancestry" subsection, what supports this claim: "His father Domenico was Italian, his Italian last name was Peri, which he translated to the Spanish form Pérez, but later changed it to Belgrano as being a name that denoted good wheat production"? The only source cited for the paragraph in which this claim appears seems to support the claim that the Belgranos were the second-richest family in Buenos Aires, but it's not clear that the same source supports any of the other claims in the paragraph. If it does, the reference should appear at the very end of the paragraph. If not, the other claims, like the name change mentioned above, may be challenged on grounds that they are not common knowledge and must have come from somewhere.


 * Possible unnecessary detail: I'm not sure you need all of the detail in "Diseases". Most people have health problems during their lives, especially at the end, but most of this section strikes me as unnecessary. In addition, the "Political thought" and "Promotion of education" subsections seem, in part, to repeat information included in the "Europe studies" and "Work in the Consulate sections". These subsections could be trimmed or perhaps merged with earlier sections.

Work in the Consulate:
 * "Those proposals were rejected by the vocals... " - It's not clear to me what "vocals" means or refers to.


 * "He proposed to keep reserves of wheat in order to have control over its prize." - Do you mean "price" rather than "prize"?

British invasions
 * "he served as field assistance of a division commanded by Balbiani. After the successful resistance, Belgrano resumed... " - Something confusing happens in this section. Belgrano goes from saying "we want the old master, or no one" to fighting against the Spanish rather quickly. Could it be made more clear in this section how he moved so smoothly from resisting the British to resisting the Spanish?

This is not a complete review, but it should give you a few ideas, at least. I don't generally check corrections after my reviews because it's too time-consuming. Please ping me on my talk page if my comments are unclear. Finetooth (talk) 17:11, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I will consider those advises, but in the case of the loyalty, your confusion comes from a common misunderstanding. Although the development of the war would lead to independentism, and that it is known as a "War of Independence", Belgrano and the others were not motivated by separatism at the early steps of the war. The motivation was instead to replace the absolutist monarchy with a more free government, either a republic or a constitutional monarchy; but both sides (the ones promoting such change, and the ones who tried to keep the absolutist government) considered themselves Spanish and fight for what, under their respective perspectives, was the best for Spain. It was only by the point when the Spanish King restored absolutism when the fight became independentist: the new values at the iberian peninsula were doomed, but they could still survive in the Americas by separating from the metropoli. And there is another interpretation: people like Belgrano was independentist all the time, even during the British Invasions, and this kind of displays of loyalty to the king were merely a ruse to conceal his true ideas.


 * But, as you see, this is a topic way beyond the scope of this article, which about the biography of a single man. This is more deeply explained at May Revolution and Historiography of the May Revolution MBelgrano (talk) 21:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)