Wikipedia:Peer review/Morning Musume/archive1

Morning Musume
I hope for comments of all kinds. Should I use the Album covers rather than the Single covers? Do I ever break NPOV? Is it too redundant, or does it cover enough information? Anything you think could help is completely welcomed. Thanks in advance. abarry  ✓ 19:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, APR t 22:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * All these criteria have recently been fulfilled. See this page    abarry   ✓ 09:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I will try to complete a review for you this week. IvoShandor 15:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks in advance!  abarry   ✓ 00:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Review by Brian
I think there is a lot of good information in the article, but the structure is not optimal. Essentially, the article tells the history of the group three, even four or more times. We start with the general history, then we have the history of the membership, then the history of the leaders, then the history of their albums. . . . Ideally, at least the first three of these should be combined into just one history section. For example, you can simply add a sentence to the appropriate paragraph noting when a new leader was chosen or an old member was replaced by a new one. At the very least, "Members" and "Leaders" shoul be merged into a single section.

And for an article on a musical group, there are various other topics that need to be covered. For example, where is the discussion of Morning Musume's influence on other performers? On J-pop in general? Where is the discussion of critical reaction to the group? Where is the discussion about their songs, the themes in them, etc.? Their style? Perhaps the "Milestones" section could be converted into prose and combined into a "Sales and critical reaction" section discussing general successes and criticisms of the band.

I also think that you will run into trouble with the fair use police if you put this up at WP:FAC. For a currently performing band, you should be able to find some freely licensed images, perhaps at flickr.com, or by putting up requests on fan message boards. The fair use images you retain need to be of subjects specifically and critically discussed in the body of the article. You might also consider adding a few (short, low-quality) audio samples.

Good luck! — Brian ( talk ) 01:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll merge the leaders and members section and add it to a new article if anything. I think it's important to have a list for things like this because trying to search through the information in paragraphs of text is a little difficult.


 * I don't know their influence on other performers and I don't even know if it exists. I think perhaps it has an influence on jpop in general but more on the idol world of jpop than anything.  The discussion about the songs can often be found on the singles pages, as not to clutter up the page needlessly with info about every little song.  Since the group is so changing and versatile it's difficult to discuss one specific "theme" or even a few found throughout their songs.


 * It's extremely difficult to get fair use images of jpop stars. If Ayumi Hamasaki doesn't even have one, I highly doubt we can get them for Morning Musume.  I thought it was okay to use the single covers/album covers though?  Or are you talking about only the first image?


 * Please reply,  abarry   ✓ 17:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You seem to be dismissing almost all of my suggestions. That is your decision, but I just wanted to tell you the sort of objections you will face if you decide to pass this article as a Good Article or Featured Article. A lot of the information you claim doesn't exist most likely does exist, you just have to do more research. It seems you can read Japanese, so that's a huge advantage for you in finding better sources for the article (one idea is to try traditional paper sources from academia). As for the fair use issue, according to WP:FU, "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information. . . . if the subject of the photograph still exists, a freely-licensed photograph could be taken." It goes on to say that fair use images "must not serve a purely decorative purpose." These reasons are why you will run into issues at GA or FA. Good luck, — Brian ( talk ) 22:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not dismissing them-- In fact, I've made a thread over at JPH!P about the information and the image, and only got this response:
 * 'As for the fair-use image, I'm afraid that, even being a fan-taken one, it won't be useful for the wikipedia.
 * Japan's personal image rights are quite more strict than in other countries, meaning that you can't publish a picture of someone without express consent, regardless of where did you take the picture from. The only thing you can do to help it is asking the people involved or the company that manages their image rights to give consent for the publication of the images.'
 * Just made it 10 times harder.   abarry   ✓ 22:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not a lawyer, but Wikipedia's servers are located in Florida, in the United States, where Japan's laws do not apply. I think you'll be okay if you can find a freely licensed fan-taken image, and the fair-use cops are going to require this at FAC. — Brian ( talk ) 01:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)