Wikipedia:Peer review/National Youth Leadership Training/archive1

National Youth Leadership Training
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I have added substantial content to it over the past few weeks. It is comprehensive, well-sourced, relatively well-written, and otherwise appears ready for a GA review. But I'm sure there remains room for improvement.

Thanks, -- btphelps (talk) (contribs) 00:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Interesting article and while it is clear that a lot of work has gone into it, I am not sure it is ready yet for WP:GAN. Here are some suggestions for improvement. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 05:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The tools in the box at upper right show two disambiguation links, four dead external links used as references, and no alt text for the one image - see WP:ALT. I would recommend fixing all of these before GAN
 * The lead seems a bit short to me - it should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. Nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way. Please see WP:LEAD
 * Avoid vague time terms like currently in Youth leadership training is currently conducted at three levels, with a possible fourth under development:[1] It is better to say either something like "As of 2009, youth leadership training is conducted at three levels,..." or perhaps "Youth leadership training has been conducted at three levels since 19xx, with a possible fourth under development as of 2009." (put in the year for 19xx obviously)
 * The lead (and article) need to give a clearer understanding of the program to someone who is not already familiar with it. It was not until the fifth sentence of the first paragraph of the third overall section (Origins) that I finally was sure this was for boys, and not adult leaders.
 * Wikipedia articles need references that are from independent, third-party sources as much as possible - almost all of the sources here are from the Boy Scouts and not independent. What have third-party sources written about this program? See WP:RS
 * Article needs more references in at least one spot, the first paragraph of Origins has no refs, nor does the end of the Course contents modifed section. My rule of thumb is that every quote, every statistic, every extraordinary claim and every paragraph needs a ref.
 * Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. cite web and other cite templates may be helpful. Current REf 34 (description of NYLT) is from the Rip van Winkle Council and this needs to be added as the publisher. See WP:CITE and WP:V
 * Ref 36 does not appear to meet WP:RS at all (discussion boards and blogs are not usually reliable sources)
 * Avoid excessive detail - does the reader really need the names of all the local attendees in the paragraph starting The local attendees also represented the top council leadership.? See WP:NN
 * Article has serious WP:OVERLINKing issues. For example Béla H. Bánáthy is linked four times in the article and White Stag Leadership Development Program is linked 8 times, but each only needs to be linked twice (lead and first appearance in body of the article)
 * Also try to avoid needless repetition - do we need to be told Herold Hunt was a professor at Harvard twice? Or that Bela taught Hungarian twice?
 * Section headers do not really follow WP:HEAD
 * Article needs a copyedit to polish the prose